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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 6231645" data-attributes="member: 48965">I'm just not seeing how 4e's mechanics in any way enforce this?  If I as DM of a 4e game don't want you to hit my monster... I create an armor class you can't hit.  If I don't want you to find a trap I create a Perception DC that your passive perception won't beat.  I don't want your push to work on a monster, I give him a power to negate it...  So even if I am using the "system",  at the end of the day, IMO... it's still for the most part the DM's story if he/she wants it to be.  This seems more related to how a DM choses to run his game as opposed to anything inherent in the rules of any version of D&D.  They are still persuading the DM to give them the opportunity to shape the "story" in either case.  It seems, and I've said this before you like the mechanics of 4e which i understand but nothing inherent in 4e stops the DM from controlling everything, IMO it just puts up this facade of "system" to cloak it in.How are you as DM of a 4e game not establishing the adversity that confronts the PC's and deciding whether or not they can overcome it?  Aren't you picking what the adversity is?  Aren't you also deciding the level/DC/AC/Def/etc. of the adversity as well?  Unless you run only pre-packaged modules (which I don't think you do from some of the play reports you've posted)  how do you not do this?  As to your second statement... aren't you flat out deciding to allow things based on whether or not they are "good for the story" whenever you use page 42 in 4e?  I'm just not seeing how (if a GM desires to) any D&D system so far can stop him from deciding what the story is?Well personally I've seen the drop down list play happen with 4e, so I'm not entirely convinced it doesn't have an uninspiring effect upon certain types of players.  IMO, when you are playing a game in which your imagination is supposed to be the limit, you will by necessity have to give the GM way more power that the players due to the very nature of the game and trying to allow an near infinite number of possibilities of actions. Now, IMO, a DM who wants to control the story is going to control the story in any edition of D&D and this seems more like a DM advice or playstyle thing than a mechanics thing.</blockquote>

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