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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ratskinner" data-source="post: 6231668" data-attributes="member: 6688937">This is one of those areas where I'm not really sure that the word "abstract" really applies. I find that such systems are actually more tightly bound to the fiction than systems like D&D. On the other hand, I totally know what you mean. I think the word we're looking for is "predefined". D&D is, IMO, much much more abstract than Fate or MHRP. However, Fate and MHRP don't come with the details ready-to-go and all set up for you. The mechanics deal with the flow of the story/fiction, rather than attempt to define the details of that fiction. So, in D&D you might have a table of Combat Modifiers that lists a dozen or more (usually fairly common) situations and their attendant bonuses and penalties. In Fate and MHRP, that table, and all similar tables, are just one mechanic (with a flat bonus mechanism in Fate and a variable one in MHRP), but instantiations of that mechanism in play can and often are very specific to the fiction. In D&D, a PC might Grapple an opponent, while in Fate you might Ride him like a hog or Got him 'round the legs.Although to the specific point that that is what allows them to work that way, I agree. I consider it a huge asset for those systems.I will disagree with you here. Later 1e and a lot of 2e was often played with abstract positioning and distancing...I believe "Theatre of the Mind" is the term often slung around for such play. At least, IME. With one-minute combat rounds, keeping track of every 5' step was often viewed as rather silly. I remember running 2e for a long time in college and using a precursor to Fate's "zone" system (not that I viewed it that way or formalized it at the time.)Why yes, the only way to fully replicate the 4e Warlord Concept is to play 4e<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />...But no, that doesn't imply that you can't effectively play or realize leader-of-men-in-battle under other systems. I do agree with you, that beyond post-hoc narration, there is no such way to mechanically do so in pre-WotC editions of D&D. Although, for some folks, that post-hoc narration is enough.You are correct about the bonuses being significant in Fate and MHRP. I would presume that if such mechanics were added to the D&D base that they would provide similarly large impact. Many groups have tried to add Fate's aspects to D&D. One of the problems they run into is that the rest of the system doesn't respond as well. Without the ability to create temporary aspects or an economy to control their usages of the same...it loses a lot of the punch.</blockquote>

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