Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 6234894" data-attributes="member: 59082">I apologize for stepping out of this thread a couple days ago but I'll try to address some comments. I used those phrases because I felt that [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] wasn't differentiating between mild and excessive use of fiat, as if any kind of fiat led to the same result. And yes, it is a Goldilocks measurement because, as [MENTION=3400]billd91[/MENTION] said, it is subjective and varies by game group and situation. The "line" depends upon the situation.This element of indeterminacy is part of what differentiates tabletop RPGs from computer games. Sure, there might be random computations in a CRPG that are akin to indeterminacy, but it is still based upon formula unlike the DM's mind. There's no DM-as-storyteller in a CRPG.As I see it, the DM, as the caretaker of the campaign, bears the burden of the enjoyment of all more than any other participant. The players have some responsibility, of course, but not nearly as much as the DM. I employ fiat as a way to serve that end - the enjoyment of all. I will never--and I mean never--use it to take the life of a character (e.g. "You wake up naked, prone, and weaponless and a tarrasque appears in front of you and gets a surprise attack"), but I will sometimes use it to save the life of a character. Not always, but sometimes. If I roll damage dice on a PC and see that the result will lead to death, I ask myself (internally) "Will this death significantly hamper the enjoyment of the game for all?" (or something like that). If the answer is yes, then I might give a reduced damage total that will merely knock the character out. But I will never let the players know that, because that would threaten immersion and suspension of disbelief, which I find to be key to enjoyment. So PC death is a case where I might employ fiat. Another might be if I really want the PCs to find something and they just don't; I might subtly give them a hint, or move that something to a place where they might find it.I think its related to immersion. The reason I picked on 4e is because two of its elements are, in particular, hampering to the imagination (imo): the AEDU paradigm and the reliance on the battle mat. I think an analogy that might better explain my view is the difference between providing a child with crayons and a blank piece of paper versus a coloring book. As I see it, the blank page is more conducive to the use of imagination, while the coloring book puts parameters on imagination. If I say, "draw a lion," the child with the blank page has to imagine the lion, while the child with the coloring book finds a picture of a lion and colors it in. In the latter case, there's some use of imagination, but it is less so than in the former.That relates to AEDU. The battlemat is simply from my experience, and from what I've heard from others, that reliance upon it leads to a game-within-the-game that is more like a wargame than a traditional RPG. So it kind of seemed as if with 4e we were playing D&D until combat began and the battlemat appeared, and then we were playing a miniature skirmish game. Decisions were made not based upon theater of mind, but by looking at the battlemat.First a nitpick: Monet and Renoir were impressionists, while Dali was a surrealist. As far as art and imagination goes, for me the trick is to what degree the art inspires an inner experience. This may be entirely subjective, but I think art that "indicates" more than it "defines" tends to lend itself to this. Well said.Yes, I agree. But the thing is, there isn't really a common language, and what I hear you asking is for me to translate my language into yours by giving clear definitions and such. I've tried to offer analogies that better illustrate where I'm coming from, which allows you to take the analogy and translate it into your own way of thinking. But make of it what you will!Some good ideas? Some?! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

Verification