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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Banshee16" data-source="post: 2498132" data-attributes="member: 7883">I loved Birthright.  IMO, it was a better medieval-type setting than FR or GH etc.  It had a much darker, more natural, grittier feel than the other settings TSR was putting out.The realm actions were cool, but they could cause some divisiveness in a group if there wasn't an equitable way of balancing roles, etc.The villains, the awnsheglien, were in many cases standard monsters, but with a twist, because they used to be mortals.  The elves, the sidhelien, were, IMO, rather the coolest treatment of elves I'd seen TSR do.  The dwarves were very elemental, solid, and more dwarf-like, if that makes any sense.  Actually, many things implemented for the birthright dwarves, such as stability, actually made it into the core 3.5E dwarven race.The setting had ley-lines, mana pooling in the earth, low-powered spellcasters (ie. most spellcasters are magicians, who can't toss fireballs), and, one of the coolest things of all.....a "real" feel to the politics.I mean, this was a game where you could have two rival churches who worshipped the same god in different ways actually declare war on each other, and lead crusades against each others' followers.  It was the idea that good didn't have to be goody-two-shoes, and that good aligned nations could fight.Greyhawk I didn't have a lot of experience with at the time, because there weren't many products out for it, and little support.  But in Forgotten Realms, there had always been this feeling that the politics didn't feel right.  I mean, how many wars were actually discussed?  I mean, some had happened, but it always felt like it was the Zentarim launching an army of beholders to wipe out Shadowdale etc.  In Birthright, you had the king of shadowdale sending an army of 3000 knights and 10000 footmen to battle the High-Priest of Zentil Keep, because the followers of Bane were busy fomenting rebellion in the homeland.If you can get your hands on the first novel for the setting, "Iron Throne", by Simon Hawke, and its sequel, "War", you'll get a better idea of the setting.  Both novels were pretty good by WotC standards.  But it's been out of print for years, so it may be a really difficult find.Another cool thing was the Shadow World.....this was kind of a template or predescesor to the modern way in which the plane of shadow is seen in the Manual of the Planes for 3E.  It was sort of a twisted reflection of the material world, that people could step through to in certain places, at certain times....sort of like that old tree leading to the underworld in "Sleepy Hollow"..WotC had some of the books available as downloads on their website, but I'm not sure if they're still there.  One of the books detailed more regency type material, and another covered the shadow world among other things.  Definitely worth checking out.It's disappointing that the setting didn't stick around.  I think one of the problems is that they made a terrific setting, as well as some supplementary products, like the boxes detailing the various nations (Rjuvik Highlands, Vos, Brecht, etc.), but the adventures didn't play to the strengths of the setting.Just on the flavour itself, I'd likely run a campaign there if I had a chance.Banshee</blockquote>

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