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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Warpiglet" data-source="post: 7092684" data-attributes="member: 6689161">If we are going to have a full measure of bladelock as a single classed character, I think we need to specify what we are comparing and analyzing.  Otherwise, this becomes: they are not as tough as a fighter in melee and then when they make moves in that direction, they are not versatile enough.  1.  I do not think a bladelock has as much value without improved armor class.  Thus, I am speaking about bladelocks with armor from variant human or dwarf race primarily.2.  What are we comparing them to?  No, they are not as tough as fighters.  Agreed.3.  They do not tank as well as fighters?  I may not really want to tank anymore than a bard or cleric.  4.  If we say less than fighter in fighting, I say agreed but are we accounting for patron features, at will and other invocations, and pact magic when we measure survive ability or value>  There is a lot here.  Just ask the regular warlock.5.  Are we really needing to be continually protected and unable to make contributions to the party?  At level 5 with a variant human I have heavy armor and (with point buy) 16 chr and str, and two attacks reasonable hit points.  6.  Does a blade pact warlock make little contribution?  We are looking at things through one lens: tank if we answer in the negative.Can a fighter use disguise self at will, cast illusions and will and summon a weapon from thin air after being captured?  Think of the disruption this can create and then how strategically you can place two attacks with a greatsword.  Yes, the fighter can action surge and use fighting style (and cool battlemaster stuff as applicable) but this does not speak to how they are going to strategically position this firepower.  I would take a blade pact warlock behind the lines in place of a fighter who if there would be superior (but can't quite get there).So my point remains.  No, the single classed blade pact warlock cannot tank as well as a fighter, but if that is not the only measure there are game changing things that can be done with decent melee ability as an option IN ADDITION to spells, invocations and patron and pact abilities.  So if we say that the blade pact single class is totally outdone by fighter, we need to quantify this statement (pure damage output or whatever).  If we compare it to multiclass blade pact we need to say it gets armor more cheaply (fewer feats sucked up) at the expense of later spell and invocation progression and loss of wisdom saving throw.Final Point:  I enjoy reading some of our resident min-maxers analyses and use it to add some cool things to characters I want to play.  However, I would not tell a prospective player a single classed blade pact is no good or impossible or even sub par depending on their goal.</blockquote>

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