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Bladesinger - a criticism of its design
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7260365" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>Here is a capture of my current PDFs, comparing sword and board Battlemaster to Bladesinger tanking @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=762" target="_blank">Mort</a></u></strong></em>'s 2 Hill Giants. <strong>Hypothesis A</strong> = BS outlasts BM using no more than Blur + Shield and a divine buff (both have this, it's more efficient than reactive heals); leaving BS's 3rd level slots free for other wizardry. <strong>Hypothesis B</strong> = BM's higher damage contribution kills Hill Giants faster, so BM takes fewer hits. Remember that this is relative and indicative. Actual play must supplement understanding.</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]90186[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>This first image shows the values where BM's contribution kills both giants a round earlier. Look at the summation column (E) and the damage column. The latter shows expected daily damage at that probability. To take Shield into account, step up the damage column a number of times = shields/day (i.e. removing that many hits). Each character can sustain an amount damage per day indefinitely = hit dice + heals. (Warding Bond divides the damage with the cleric hence 6 HD.) As you can see, with killing both giants a round earlier BM goes past what it can sustain 98% of the time, while BS does so only about 25% of the time (once Shield is taken into account).</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]90187[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>This second image shows the same thing, but with BM's contribution killing both giants two rounds earlier. More than halving the attacks per encounter. As you can see, with killing both giants two rounds earlier about 67% of the time BM goes past what it can sustain. I've checked what happens if we go the other direction (BS takes longer, rather than BM shorter) and it shifts BS to not sustaining about 38% (still much better than BM). Further, I've checked that damage never spikes to a level that kills either character prior to that final unsustainable blow (i.e. I've taken into account the significance of HP total as well as HP sustainable.)</p><p></p><p>As @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814" target="_blank">Ovinomancer</a></u></strong></em> pointed out, the culprit here is being able to cast Blur on top of Bladesong and other buffs. Blur is self-only. As @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6873189" target="_blank">Rofel Wodring</a></u></strong></em> pointed out, an Abjurer that can find the right armour can emulate this... at the cost of a Wizard level. Eldritch Knight can do it <em>part</em> of each day at 7th level... but not all day until 13th level. Actual play suggests that these PDFs are pessimistic, and elsewhere we've discussed 5th edition being on an "easy" difficulty setting. So BS might not be problematic in your setting because your characters are dominating anyway. @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814" target="_blank">Ovinomancer</a></u></strong></em> attests to a non-BS party prevailing over 3 Stone Giants at 6th level: an encounter far more deadly than 2 Hill Giants.</p><p></p><p>Greater possible relative strength is not the same as strength experienced at the table. Some players never pick Blur, as @<em><strong><u><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6786252" target="_blank">Mephista</a></u></strong></em> attested to. Some parties won't have a Cleric, or the Cleric will refuse to cast proactive buffs. I'm confident that Bladesong is not correctly balanced. That doesn't have to impact you at all. For my campaign, it means the sub-class can't be used without revision. I'm not sure what the revision is: maybe Blur is what really needs a nerf?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7260365, member: 71699"] Here is a capture of my current PDFs, comparing sword and board Battlemaster to Bladesinger tanking @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=762"]Mort[/URL][/U][/B][/I]'s 2 Hill Giants. [B]Hypothesis A[/B] = BS outlasts BM using no more than Blur + Shield and a divine buff (both have this, it's more efficient than reactive heals); leaving BS's 3rd level slots free for other wizardry. [B]Hypothesis B[/B] = BM's higher damage contribution kills Hill Giants faster, so BM takes fewer hits. Remember that this is relative and indicative. Actual play must supplement understanding. [ATTACH=CONFIG]90186._xfImport[/ATTACH] This first image shows the values where BM's contribution kills both giants a round earlier. Look at the summation column (E) and the damage column. The latter shows expected daily damage at that probability. To take Shield into account, step up the damage column a number of times = shields/day (i.e. removing that many hits). Each character can sustain an amount damage per day indefinitely = hit dice + heals. (Warding Bond divides the damage with the cleric hence 6 HD.) As you can see, with killing both giants a round earlier BM goes past what it can sustain 98% of the time, while BS does so only about 25% of the time (once Shield is taken into account). [ATTACH=CONFIG]90187._xfImport[/ATTACH] This second image shows the same thing, but with BM's contribution killing both giants two rounds earlier. More than halving the attacks per encounter. As you can see, with killing both giants two rounds earlier about 67% of the time BM goes past what it can sustain. I've checked what happens if we go the other direction (BS takes longer, rather than BM shorter) and it shifts BS to not sustaining about 38% (still much better than BM). Further, I've checked that damage never spikes to a level that kills either character prior to that final unsustainable blow (i.e. I've taken into account the significance of HP total as well as HP sustainable.) As @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814"]Ovinomancer[/URL][/U][/B][/I] pointed out, the culprit here is being able to cast Blur on top of Bladesong and other buffs. Blur is self-only. As @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6873189"]Rofel Wodring[/URL][/U][/B][/I] pointed out, an Abjurer that can find the right armour can emulate this... at the cost of a Wizard level. Eldritch Knight can do it [I]part[/I] of each day at 7th level... but not all day until 13th level. Actual play suggests that these PDFs are pessimistic, and elsewhere we've discussed 5th edition being on an "easy" difficulty setting. So BS might not be problematic in your setting because your characters are dominating anyway. @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814"]Ovinomancer[/URL][/U][/B][/I] attests to a non-BS party prevailing over 3 Stone Giants at 6th level: an encounter far more deadly than 2 Hill Giants. Greater possible relative strength is not the same as strength experienced at the table. Some players never pick Blur, as @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6786252"]Mephista[/URL][/U][/B][/I] attested to. Some parties won't have a Cleric, or the Cleric will refuse to cast proactive buffs. I'm confident that Bladesong is not correctly balanced. That doesn't have to impact you at all. For my campaign, it means the sub-class can't be used without revision. I'm not sure what the revision is: maybe Blur is what really needs a nerf? [/QUOTE]
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