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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 9723035" data-attributes="member: 7023840">No, he doesn't. I get what you're trying to say, but the usage is consistent. Not to repeat what I said before, but you can look at his usage of q.v. in the PHB and the DMG (trust me, there's a LOT of usages) and see that he is using it, if not always consistent with best academic practice, then at least consistent with proper usage- q.v. means that it is an internal cross-reference to another part of the text that you are omitting in order to avoid footnotes or repeating yourself.It means that you have to look elsewhere to find the specific rule or table or explanation. So here, you cannot say "this refers to magic war hammers" so it could refer to any magic war hammers. No, it says ... go look for the relevant text that I am not going to repeat here that you should know that is about magic war hammers, located at the Hammer of Thunderbolts.I gave you the glyph of warding example. That doesn't mean to look anywhere that you find him refer to a glypg of warding- it means that specific entry that specifically talks about the erase spell. Here's some other uses....That is, they use the normal tables for poison types (q.v.).  This refers to the Poison Types TableThe afflicted character will generally behave as one in o maniacal state, with paranoid (q.v.), hallucinatory (q.v.), or homicidal (q.v.) tendencies.  This refers to the rules entries for each under Insanity.The ESP potion bestows an ability which is the same as the level magic-user spell of the same name (q.v.) ... This refers to the spell in the PHB.Reading of such scrolls is possible even to magic-users who are otherwise unable to employ such a spell for any reason whatsoever, be it inability to learn or above level of use - although in the latter case there is a chance of spell failure (q.v.).  In other words, this is a reminder that this isn't just natural language (you might have a chance of spell failure), but you need to look at the specific rule for Magic Spell FailureNow here's an interesting example of the true interplay of q.v.A lot of people who played AD&D had a mistaken belief that, for example, "Rings of Wishes" gave ... more powerful wishes than "just a spell." But that's not true. Look at the wording of the Ring-Ring of Multiple Wishes: This ring contains from 2-8 (2d4) wish spells (q.v.). As with any wish, you must be very judicious in how you handle the request. If players are greedy and grasping, be sure to ”crock” them. Interpret their wording exactly, twist the wording, or simply rule the request is beyond the power of the magic. In any case, the wish is used up, whether or not (or how) the wish was granted. Note that no wish is able to cancel the decrees of god-like beings, unless it comes from another such creature.So you might notice that the description here is more .... perjorative .... than just what is in the PHB. What's going on? Well, the Ring literally just contains 2-8 wish spells- and you can cross-reference the PHB to see that wish spell. But the DMG also contains all sorts of text that limits the power of wishes. Not just the additional admonition to kinda sorta screw players here. But also weirdly specific limitations on the power of a wish BEYOND screwing players. See, e.g., the Special Note on page 136 about magical librams, manuals, tomes, and books. You can't use a wish to find out what they do- one wish gives you the general contents, but it takes two (TWO) wishes to find out what it does specifically.But other than Gygax's love of screwing players over, the use of q.v. indicates that a wish is a wish, as shown in the text of the PHB.Anyway, I hope the point is made. By using "q.v." Gygax is referring you to another rule. As I like to say, anyone can debate anything, but debating this particular rule issue in AD&D (IMO, backed by a lot of evidence) is just wrong. Only the hammer of thunderbolts works, and that's because (1) it's the only hammer that has the specific rule, and (2) the only other item that says you can stack bonuses says you need to look to the magical war hammers rules, and when you do, you find the specific rule in the hammer of thunderbolts. To go Gygaxian ... Q.E.D.</blockquote>

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