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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SBMC" data-source="post: 2502532" data-attributes="member: 30040">------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If he took a five foots step into a pit you would not charge him a move action for the fall - "falling is free". Many of you have agreed to the above – falling is free. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Otherwise, following the logic stated, when you fall that 60' per round (I think it is - if not say it is for the purposes of this example)) would that then count as a double move for the character with a 30' move? No - it would not. Can you reasonably argue with this? If a PC was falling 1,000 feet each round he would be given a move action and a standard action as he fell; does anyone disagree with that? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Page 77 of the PHB (middle/lower right hand side) details this: See Jumping Down and Action. It indicates that jumping is a move equivalent action (and/or combined with a move action) and Jumping down falls under Jumping - thus it is an actual move equivalent action - and thus you cannot also make a full attack. A 5 foot step is still free (but you can’t move and take the 5 foot step as we all know)  There are no rules regarding “stepping” off a ledge. I don’t see why one can’t do it at all; the logic against that is intrinsic and just because the rules say nothing does not mean it can’t be done. Are characters are heroes; the best of the best of the world; far braver than even the bravest.. If it was stepping into molten lava as a DM you would allow it (even though you would know the player was daft)…why not thin air?  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What I would say, and I think the RAW supports me (IMO), is that if you just step and stop – free action – no other actions subsequent to that can be taken without charging a move action against the character.   “jumping down” really means intentionally jumping off of something - as in “jumping” not just walking off of it. Some of you eluded to the two being the same by default IMO they are indeed different. However falling is a free action but landing still takes a move action – just as if you had made the full jump action in the same round you would get the “jump down” fall and landing as a single move action. But any one of the three individually still costs a move action (I hope that made sense!)  Think about the rules; if you run out of movement in a jump you are “frozen” there until your next turn where you then continue the jump (which costs a move action). Why can that not also apply here? With the only difference being you got a freebie top start the jump by stepping off but in the end it still costs you a move action to complete. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thus you cannot both take a 5-foot step and fall in the same round and not make a move action out of it; seeing as by default that means you did indeed “jump down” (see below – sooner or later ya gotta spend that move action). However the next round after that; you fall immediately before any actions are taken.  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A house rule I use (since similar situations came up): You, when falling, after jumping down, may choose to not avoid taking damage (landing using a move action) then you get no chance to stay upright and take max damage. But you can then take a move action and a standard action before or after you hit or a full round action before or after you hit (provided your still alive).  As I said above If you "step off" and fall in the same round ou get hit with a move action and the ruloe just above here applies. Iif you just step off one rond, then on your next turn fall, that fall haoppens first thing in you turn before anything else; you ahve no chance to get an action off before you fall. If you hit the ground that round you take max damage (do the carelessness by which you left the ledge) but can make a save at a -1 penalty per foot of the fall to stay upright. In this case the "care" or "carelessness" is what is important when leaving the ledge. If you "jump down" you burn a move action , fall in that same round and land on your feet if you "step off" you may not fall that same round, you ma take no further actions, fall first thing on your next turn, take max damage and get a huge penalty to stay upright. See below for additional info in "stepping off". ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To answer the original question: he cannot step 5', fall and make a full attack in the same round.  He may however: 1. Jump down, fall (making it a move action) and make a single attack 2. Make a single attack, jump down and fall 3. Make a full attack and just step 5' and end his turn in midair  For #3 - However, between the PC's turns of stepping and falling (seeing as he also attacked them), the badguys would see him coming and on their turn, after he took his step into midair, could do bad things. -I call falling on someone a charge (a free charge for the guy falling - but he can't benefit from it with an attack as a charge unless he chooses to do so at a -10 penalty; but recall this also means he can't use an action to stay upright and per my hose rule takes max damage seeing as a charge is a full round action). -The enemy could set weapons against that charge on their turn. Meaning the PC takes the falling damage PLUS damage from the set weapons.  -I also say that, given we live in a 3 dimensional world, the PC would generate AoO's for any threatened squares he passes through; be they in midair.  Thoughts?</blockquote>

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