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<blockquote data-quote="Cabral" data-source="post: 2780780" data-attributes="member: 1193">Yes, it was intentional that Precise Hearing was usable with ranged attack. First level is meant as an upgrade to blind-fight. I'm considering a limitation for range attacks, but not sure of the mechanic ...What I'm thinking of right now is when the Blind Swordsman (Archer), makes a ranged attack, he suffers -1 to the attack per 10 ft offset by 1 per class level or or the normal range increment penalties, which ever is higher, this only applies to foes he can pinpoint, that are outside of the range of his blindsight.For example: A 5th level Blind Swordsman fires an arrow from a shortbow (Range Increment 60') 80'. The normal range penalty would be -1. Because his blindness is only partially offset by his class abilities, he instead suffers a -3 to hit (-8 for 80' +5 class levels). If the same sowrdsman throws an throwing axe (range increment 10) 80', he'd suffer a -8 to hit from the range.The mechanic is a bit clutzy here too :\It was also intentional that the Blind Swordsman be able to get some decent range with it... maybe +5 ft per every 2 over the DC?Hmm. Let's see... assuming a 16 Wisdom (+3 bonus) with the minimum 5 ranks in Listen plus Alertness (+2) and Skill Focus (+3), that's +13 Listen at level 5, now with Listen as a class skill (See below), and 1 rank every level ....[code]Table x-x Nerfage Reference Table&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Max Distance&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Listen&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5'/5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5'/2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +5'/1Level*&nbsp;&nbsp; Bonus&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class Blindsight&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5'&nbsp; 15'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20' 45'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45' 95'&nbsp; &nbsp; -&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10' 20'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 25' 50'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 50' 100'&nbsp;&nbsp; -&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10' 20'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 25' 50'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 55' 105'&nbsp;&nbsp; 5'&nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10' 20'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 30' 55'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 60' 110'&nbsp;&nbsp; 5'&nbsp;10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10' 20'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 30' 55'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 65' 115'&nbsp;&nbsp; 15'&nbsp;11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 10' 20'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 35' 60'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70' 120'&nbsp;&nbsp; 30'&nbsp;12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15' 25'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 35' 60'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 75' 125'&nbsp;&nbsp; 45'&nbsp;13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +21&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15' 25'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40' 65'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 80' 130'&nbsp;&nbsp; 60'&nbsp;14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +22&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15' 25'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40' 65'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 85' 135'&nbsp;&nbsp; 75'&nbsp;15&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15' 25'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45' 70'&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 90' 140'&nbsp;&nbsp; 90'*Level 5+Class Level[/code]Okay, so the Precise Hearing becomes mostly subsumed by the class Blindsight at level 5 (entirely at level 6) with the +5' every 5 pts over the DC. If Precise Hearing pinpoints foes out to +5' per 2 pts over the DC, it becomes partially subsumed by level 7 and completely subsumed at level 9. I like the fact that you no longer roll dice to see if you can target your opponent earlier with the +5' per 5 over DC, but I also like the greater utility from the +5' per 2 over DC.Yeah, on second thought it's unnecessary to have Listen substitute for a spot check ... Just make a Listen check with a really high distance penalty. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Listen was intentionally removed as a class skill. I had intended to make more Listen based abilities which were going to have lower DC offset by lack of a listen check. When I decided/couldn't think of any appropriate one, I forgot to put Listen back in.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cabral, post: 2780780, member: 1193"] Yes, it was intentional that Precise Hearing was usable with ranged attack. First level is meant as an upgrade to blind-fight. I'm considering a limitation for range attacks, but not sure of the mechanic ... What I'm thinking of right now is when the Blind Swordsman (Archer), makes a ranged attack, he suffers -1 to the attack per 10 ft offset by 1 per class level [i]or[/i] or the normal range increment penalties, which ever is higher, this only applies to foes he can pinpoint, that are outside of the range of his blindsight. For example: A 5th level Blind Swordsman fires an arrow from a shortbow (Range Increment 60') 80'. The normal range penalty would be -1. Because his blindness is only partially offset by his class abilities, he instead suffers a -3 to hit (-8 for 80' +5 class levels). If the same sowrdsman throws an throwing axe (range increment 10) 80', he'd suffer a -8 to hit from the range. The mechanic is a bit clutzy here too :\ It was also intentional that the Blind Swordsman be able to get some decent range with it... maybe +5 ft per every 2 over the DC? Hmm. Let's see... assuming a 16 Wisdom (+3 bonus) with the minimum 5 ranks in Listen plus Alertness (+2) and Skill Focus (+3), that's +13 Listen at level 5, now with Listen as a class skill (See below), and 1 rank every level .... [code]Table x-x Nerfage Reference Table Max Distance Listen +5'/5 +5'/2 +5'/1 Level* Bonus 10 20 10 20 10 20 Class Blindsight 6 +14 5' 15' 20' 45' 45' 95' - 7 +15 10' 20' 25' 50' 50' 100' - 8 +16 10' 20' 25' 50' 55' 105' 5' 9 +17 10' 20' 30' 55' 60' 110' 5' 10 +18 10' 20' 30' 55' 65' 115' 15' 11 +19 10' 20' 35' 60' 70' 120' 30' 12 +20 15' 25' 35' 60' 75' 125' 45' 13 +21 15' 25' 40' 65' 80' 130' 60' 14 +22 15' 25' 40' 65' 85' 135' 75' 15 +23 15' 25' 45' 70' 90' 140' 90' *Level 5+Class Level [/code] Okay, so the Precise Hearing becomes mostly subsumed by the class Blindsight at level 5 (entirely at level 6) with the +5' every 5 pts over the DC. If Precise Hearing pinpoints foes out to +5' per 2 pts over the DC, it becomes partially subsumed by level 7 and completely subsumed at level 9. I like the fact that you no longer roll dice to see if you can target your opponent earlier with the +5' per 5 over DC, but I also like the greater utility from the +5' per 2 over DC. Yeah, on second thought it's unnecessary to have Listen substitute for a spot check ... Just make a Listen check with a [I]really[/I] high distance penalty. :) Listen was intentionally removed as a class skill. I had intended to make more Listen based abilities which were going to have lower DC offset by lack of a listen check. When I decided/couldn't think of any appropriate one, I forgot to put Listen back in. [/QUOTE]

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