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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 3646552" data-attributes="member: 51942">When mirror image says &quot;An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect. (Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)&quot; it's something that (as always) you need to interprete in context.&nbsp; In normal situations, in which creatures normally locate things by sight, clearly, this holds true.&nbsp; You should not construe the phrase to mean that the auditory effects of the spell are suppressed when someone closes their eyes.The question is whether &quot;When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image.&quot; means that there is some auditory component, sufficient to merely fool the crude hearing of an average human, or that the auditory component is sufficient to fool blind-sight-quality hearing.If someone walks past you, you'll notice that ambient noises not made by the passerby are significantly effected by the passing person.&nbsp; Simple passive &quot;keen hearing&quot; is just like echolocation in that it relies heavily on sound &quot;bouncing off&quot;.&nbsp; I would avoid differentiating types of blind-sight based on whether they're &quot;keen-hearing&quot; or &quot;echolocation&quot; based, as it's a very fine distinction which you'll need to invent (it's not stated in creature's blind-sight descriptions), and makes no real-world sense either.So I see three real options:&nbsp;(1) Mirror image is not sufficient to fool blind-sight as the fake auditory figments don't do reflection and so on accurately enough&nbsp;(2) Mirror image can fool blind-sight based on hearing, even if the blind-sighted creatures closes it's eyes.&nbsp; Of course any creature can randomly swing at a square for a 50% mischance; but then they won't be terminating any images when they do so.&nbsp;(3) Mirror image can fool all blind-sight, as tremorsense and scent alone are not sufficient to do more than locate the square someone is in, which is possible anyhow (normally).For simplicity I would prefer (1) or (3).&nbsp; Regarding (3), can anyone think of a creature which has a blind-sight ability completely without auditory component?&nbsp; That would rule out option (3).Against option (3): compared to other illusions, a blind-sight fooling illusion is rather powerful for a 2nd level spell (compare to major image, a 3rd level spell)Against option (2): complex to administer, asking for rule discussions.Against option (1): Seems counter to the spell description which names hearing as one of the fooled senses.I think I'm leaning towards option 3, nice and simple and matches the spell-description.&nbsp; it's a little powerful, but not horribly so, I think.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 3646552, member: 51942"] When mirror image says "An attacker must be able to see the images to be fooled. If you are invisible or an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect. (Being unable to see carries the same penalties as being blinded.)" it's something that (as always) you need to interprete in context. In normal situations, in which creatures normally locate things by sight, clearly, this holds true. You should not construe the phrase to mean that the auditory effects of the spell are suppressed when someone closes their eyes. The question is whether "When you and the mirror image separate, observers can’t use vision or hearing to tell which one is you and which the image." means that there is some auditory component, sufficient to merely fool the crude hearing of an average human, or that the auditory component is sufficient to fool blind-sight-quality hearing. If someone walks past you, you'll notice that ambient noises [i]not[/i] made by the passerby are significantly effected by the passing person. Simple passive "keen hearing" is just like echolocation in that it relies heavily on sound "bouncing off". I would avoid differentiating types of blind-sight based on whether they're "keen-hearing" or "echolocation" based, as it's a very fine distinction which you'll need to invent (it's not stated in creature's blind-sight descriptions), and makes no real-world sense either. So I see three real options: (1) Mirror image is not sufficient to fool blind-sight as the fake auditory figments don't do reflection and so on accurately enough (2) Mirror image can fool blind-sight based on hearing, even if the blind-sighted creatures closes it's eyes. Of course any creature can randomly swing at a square for a 50% mischance; but then they won't be terminating any images when they do so. (3) Mirror image can fool all blind-sight, as tremorsense and scent alone are not sufficient to do more than locate the square someone is in, which is possible anyhow (normally). For simplicity I would prefer (1) or (3). Regarding (3), can anyone think of a creature which has a blind-sight ability completely without auditory component? That would rule out option (3). Against option (3): compared to other illusions, a blind-sight fooling illusion is rather powerful for a 2nd level spell (compare to major image, a 3rd level spell) Against option (2): complex to administer, asking for rule discussions. Against option (1): Seems counter to the spell description which names hearing as one of the fooled senses. I think I'm leaning towards option 3, nice and simple and matches the spell-description. it's a little powerful, but not horribly so, I think. [/QUOTE]

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