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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 2029908" data-attributes="member: 2011">Well, the first problem here is that you are attempting to rationalize how a spell works. If you approach it with the mindset of &quot;it works that way because it works that way&quot;, there is no discrepancy.If you need a rationale here, a simple one is that the Rogue &quot;suddenly appears, sneak attacks, and disappears&quot;. He is not getting the invisible bonus (and hence the sneak attack) because he cannot be seen, he is getting the invisible bonus because he cannot be seen until he simultaneously strikes. Kind of like normal Invisibility where he becomes visible when he strikes, but by then it is too late. In the case of normal Invisibility, you might know where the Rogue is, but he still gets his sneak attack. No different here. You know that he is blinking somewhere around here, but he becomes visible and attacks, just as if he had been normally invisible instead.But the point is that people sometimes try to wrap their minds about &quot;how the rules work with regard to common sense&quot; and you cannot do that. There are a lot of nonsensical rules that work merely within their own framework. For example, not having a facing and hence, you cannot be attacked from behind. Or, having a shield bonus against all attacks, regardless of their direction. Or threatening all of the squares 10 feet away with a Longspear simultaneously (with a real spear, you would threaten the area where you are thrusting the spear, not 10 feet behind you). These are all nonsensical (i.e. against common sense) rules, but they work as long as you suspend your disbelief. You have to do the same here.You just have to say &quot;That's the way the spell works&quot; and leave it at that.This is not any different than Mirror Image having exactly NO ways to perceive that it is fake. You cannot say &quot;I attack the one that smoke is coming off, or I attack the one bleeding in a pool of blood, or I attack the one whining like a little girl after I just smacked him with my Greatsword, or I attack the one standing in the water and actually making waves.&quot;. It doesn't really make sense that an intelligent character couldn't ever see through the illusion in some way, shape, or form, but that is how the spell is written, so that is how it works.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 2029908, member: 2011"] Well, the first problem here is that you are attempting to rationalize how a spell works. If you approach it with the mindset of "it works that way because it works that way", there is no discrepancy. If you need a rationale here, a simple one is that the Rogue "suddenly appears, sneak attacks, and disappears". He is not getting the invisible bonus (and hence the sneak attack) because he cannot be seen, he is getting the invisible bonus because he cannot be seen until he simultaneously strikes. Kind of like normal Invisibility where he becomes visible when he strikes, but by then it is too late. In the case of normal Invisibility, you might know where the Rogue is, but he still gets his sneak attack. No different here. You know that he is blinking somewhere around here, but he becomes visible and attacks, just as if he had been normally invisible instead. But the point is that people sometimes try to wrap their minds about "how the rules work with regard to common sense" and you cannot do that. There are a lot of nonsensical rules that work merely within their own framework. For example, not having a facing and hence, you cannot be attacked from behind. Or, having a shield bonus against all attacks, regardless of their direction. Or threatening all of the squares 10 feet away with a Longspear simultaneously (with a real spear, you would threaten the area where you are thrusting the spear, not 10 feet behind you). These are all nonsensical (i.e. against common sense) rules, but they work as long as you suspend your disbelief. You have to do the same here. You just have to say "That's the way the spell works" and leave it at that. This is not any different than Mirror Image having exactly NO ways to perceive that it is fake. You cannot say "I attack the one that smoke is coming off, or I attack the one bleeding in a pool of blood, or I attack the one whining like a little girl after I just smacked him with my Greatsword, or I attack the one standing in the water and actually making waves.". It doesn't really make sense that an intelligent character couldn't ever see through the illusion in some way, shape, or form, but that is how the spell is written, so that is how it works. [/QUOTE]

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