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<blockquote data-quote="rushlight" data-source="post: 2034812" data-attributes="member: 3801">That's where you make your mistake.&nbsp;You don't know when you'll be where.&nbsp; If you did know, then there wouldn't BE a miss chance.&nbsp; You'd know.&nbsp; &nbsp;Since you don't know, there's a random variable - 20% to be exact.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I didn't ignore it.&nbsp; I addressed it - pointing out the flaw in your logic.&nbsp; See above for further information.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Descripions?&nbsp; The rules are the rules.&nbsp; If it says you need to see, then you need to see.&nbsp; Plain and clear.&nbsp; You don't need to overcomplicate things for people who can't use some common sense.&nbsp; And another thing:&nbsp; Nowhere in the sneak attack rules does it say: &quot;Concealment is the only thing that prevents sneak attack.&nbsp; Other than that, you can sneak attack anytime.&quot;&nbsp; It says you need to see clearly - then points out one example of when you would be unable to see clearly - and leaves the adjucation of when &quot;seeing clearly&quot; is possible up to the DM.&nbsp; They hoped you'd take some initative and think about it for yourself.&nbsp;And if your DM decides that your vision is &quot;muted&quot;, &quot;indistinct&quot; and has &quot;blurry colors&quot; and &quot;fuzzy edges&quot; - yet you can still see clearly - then you've got a DM who either likes you or doesn't want to be bothered to make a correct decison.&nbsp;It's impossible to quantify every single effect possible while playing the game, and cross-reference every action with every spell so that all permutations are accounted for.&nbsp; It's enough to say &quot;You need to see clearly&quot; - and if something makes your vision all screwy, then any reasonable person (not trying to get unlimited sneak attacks) can obviously connect the dots.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="rushlight, post: 2034812, member: 3801"] That's where you make your mistake. You don't [b]know[/b] when you'll be where. If you did know, then there wouldn't BE a miss chance. You'd know. Since you [b]don't[/b] know, there's a random variable - 20% to be exact. I didn't ignore it. I addressed it - pointing out the flaw in your logic. See above for further information. Descripions? The rules are the rules. If it says you need to see, then you need to see. Plain and clear. You don't need to overcomplicate things for people who can't use some common sense. And another thing: Nowhere in the sneak attack rules does it say: "Concealment is the only thing that prevents sneak attack. Other than that, you can sneak attack anytime." It says you need to see clearly - then points out one example of when you would be unable to see clearly - and leaves the adjucation of when "seeing clearly" is possible up to the DM. They hoped you'd take some initative and think about it for yourself. And if your DM decides that your vision is "muted", "indistinct" and has "blurry colors" and "fuzzy edges" - yet you can still see clearly - then you've got a DM who either likes you or doesn't want to be bothered to make a correct decison. It's impossible to quantify every single effect possible while playing the game, and cross-reference every action with every spell so that all permutations are accounted for. It's enough to say "You need to see clearly" - and if something makes your vision all screwy, then any reasonable person (not trying to get unlimited sneak attacks) can obviously connect the dots. [/QUOTE]

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