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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GM Dave" data-source="post: 5886488" data-attributes="member: 6687992">I agree with others that say that Wizards needs to re-think the Paladin.The original Paladin was back in the days of the original Cleric when DnD had a more nebulous, monotheistic, overtone.  Clerics worked to protect good and Paladins were fighters that had served good for most of their lives and been rewarded for that outlook.DnD has become much more a polytheism system with gods for different races, different seasons, different items, different outlooks, different goals.DnD has moved from the classic Cleric of 'good' where good is unspecified and the god served is mostly undisclosed to a Cleric of a specific faith and set of practices.It has been proposed that the newer broader faith Cleric is really a separate class and should be called a Priest.  The Cleric is a Priest but with a more specific 'kit' or 'sub-set' of abilities.I think the same should happen with the Paladin.  The classic Paladin doesn't have a religious tie in any more way then a classic Cleric.  I think in 5e it would be better to have the Paladin be a sub-set or kit of a broader class which is the Crusader.I do like the idea proposed that the Paladin's powers might come from a 'Vow' mechanic (or Goal mechanic).  When the Crusader is working towards the vow or goal then all is fine and the Crusader is getting certain bonuses (avoids having to have the monsters pull out alignment cards to check if the Paladin is free to smash them ;> ). Failure to follow a stated vow can cause penalties and hardship for the character.  This fits with the theme of the Crusading Knights like Lancelot that went insane temporarily when they were frustrated from fulfilling their Vows.I also think that the idea of Orders would be a good idea to borrow from Pathfinder and have the Crusaders choose variations of representing their Profession (this opens up plenty of game development territory along with the interaction of faiths).  This would allow players more room to choose the Paladin/Crusader package that meets their wants and views instead of trying to go with a 'One Basket Fits All' approach which this thread has surely shown does not apply.</blockquote>

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