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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Loonook" data-source="post: 5890469" data-attributes="member: 1861">Let us look at what the Paladin gains for himself:SpellcastingDivine HealthLay on HandsTurningAurasDetectionSmite3rd Level spellGraceMountPersonally, I want to see more Specialists when it comes to Clerics and Paladins.  I miss the 2e vibe, and present the idea of Oaths and Mantles.  The traditional Paladin would bear the Divine Oath (Lawful Good) and the Hospitalier's Mantle... Divine Grace and Divine Health remain the same for every individual paladin.  Oaths are pretty basic, and only affect the following:Turning/RebukingGraceDetectionAuraNow let us see what we can do with Paladins with other Oaths.  Aura of Courage/Intimidating Aura go to Profane Oath: The Paladin has corrupted his faith, twisting his vows into his own self-serving ends.  He gains the ability to Rebuke Undead and Turn Deathless creatures.  His Grace ability provides a Profane Bonus.  He has the ability to Detect Good.  He gains the Intimidating Aura ability at level 4. Aura of Courage: Remains the same as Aura of Courage, but boosts its ability by +2 for every 8 levels after 4, to +8 at 20th level. Intimidating Aura - Adds Immunity to Fear and the power of the <a href="http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Frightful_Presence_(D20_Modern_Feat)" target="_blank">Frightful Presence</a> feat, usable 1/day for every 8 levels after 4th, to a maximum of 3/day. This is pretty basic, and honestly the power of the Frightful Presence ability is situational at best, as it only applies to creatures with less HD than the opponent.  Great for mobs, poor for your standard big bad evil monsters.Now we get to Mantles.  Mantles provide the abilities that match up to:SpellcastingLay on HandsSmite3rd Level spellMountNow this is where it gets interesting <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.  Just throwing out ideas with no actual playtesting... But would love to get the chance to try them out <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />.Mantle of the Land:  The Paladin's beliefs are older than the Church, and he draws power from the Land and Sky rather than some divine entity.Skill: Gains Survival as a skill.Spellcasting: A mixture of Nature and protective spells.Smite: Unnatural Creatures are smiteable by a bearer of the Mantle of the Land.  Rather than Smite Evil the Mantlebearer may Smite Undead, Constructs, and Outsiders of any ilk.3rd level spell: Remove Disease is still on the Druid spell list so we keep it there.  Neutralize Poison also feels like a good thing to place in here.Mount: Replace with any Animal Companion or maintain the Mount ability.  The Paladin's Animal Companion advances as a Mount.Lay on Hands: I'd like to put "The Paladin can impart Fast Healing X for rounds equal to Y."  The balance here is tricky as it is slightly worse in the short term but can be valuable in the long run.  For now, LoH remains the same.Overall: The Paladin gains the ability to smite Good and Evil creatures... But in most cases this is actually just giving a slight amount of options to the Paladin in the case that Good creatures are used as opponents of the three available types. The Mount is only slightly better than an Ranger's companion at 20th level HD wise, but does not gain some of the nice AC abilities that a Ranger gains. Mantle of the Mystic: The Paladin believes in the power of the Art.  He is studious and knows ways to combat those who twist the Art to perverse ends.Skill: Spellcraft.  I kind of want to give Use Magic Device to the Mystic Mantle, as it ties to a Paladin's main stat, but may be a bit of a bridge as it is such a GOOD skill.Spellcasting: Abjuration and Enchantment effects from the Sorcerer/Wizard list.  The Paladin loses healing completely.  Smite: Creatures with Supernatural Abilities/Spellcasting.Mount/Lay on Hands: The Paladin replaces his Mount ability with a Dispelling Attack.  The Paladin may place a Touch attack on an opponent channeling a Dispelling Prayer (DC: HD + Cha).  This ability may be used Cha mod/day.  The two-way nature of LoH could also make this a Spell Resistance effect gained by the Paladin as a standard action for X rounds.  26 SR and 26 CL DC doesn't seem too untoward at 20th level, and is going to be beaten by most, if not all, of the casters.3rd level Spell: Remove disease removed, replaced with Magic Circle against X of appropriate opposing alignment.Overall: You combine 2 moderate skills for a cracker of an ability.  Most higher-level creatures are going to have Su or Spellcasting abilities, but again there will be creatures who ARE evil that you're not affecting.  The powers are extremely level dependent and swingy, but so are most.  Magic Circle Against X is a fantastic ability... Honestly Remove Disease is just not the best.I also enjoy the Paladin's Mercies and multiple auras in Pathfinder... And believe that Mercies could be made available to each specific Mantle along with an additional Aura for each to prevent Paralysis, Charm, Death Effects, etc.What do you think then?  I think there needs to be a bit more work put into it but I gave it about 15 minutes of what I would LIKE to see.  I think that these basic Mantles could easily be changed, Spellcasting replaced with various abilities for a Dragon mantle, for instance, or the Fey allowing castings of Disguise Self and other popular Fey abilities as part of the Mantle of the Summer/Winter Courts.  Each church could easily create their own Mantle, as it is just a matter of breaking down the power levels and working from there for balance.  I think that these powers also help to pull the Paladin up to a more formidable foe, as I would like the Fighter to be pulled up.Slainte,-Loonook.</blockquote>

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