Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Blog Post by Robert J. Schwalb
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6326848" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Well the first criticism follows from the second, doesn't it? If you argue that an RPG system sucks because it ruins RPGing, you can expect disagreement from those RPGers who think the system is a good one!</p><p></p><p>In my view the best RPG systems ensure that making choices around a fictional concept will result in a mathematically adequate character sheet. To date I have found 4e fairly robust in this respect, certainly compared to other fantasy RPG systems that I have used.</p><p></p><p>I don't really follow.</p><p></p><p>Schwalb comments on how others play and enjoy the game. He does so in pejorative terms. Some of those people he's commented on don't agree with his (pejorative) characterisation of how they play the game. And you're surprised that they express that disagreement? I think most of them have comprehended him perfectly well. They just don't agree with his description of them. Perhaps they're self-deluded, but I'm not sure that either you or Schwalb is in a good position to know that.</p><p></p><p>I'm sure he's sincere. But I still take the view that if you're going to tell others that their approach to RPGing has spoiled the game, you have to be prepared to have at least some of them disagree with you. And not all that disagreement is going to be unreasonable, either!</p><p></p><p>I don't understand your reply at all.</p><p></p><p>How is finding clever ways to synergise the PCs' range of abilities "group optimisation" in some way that contrasts (pejoratively) with clever thinking? How come in AD&D the wizard casting an infravision spell on the thief so the latter can scout ahead is "clever play", but in 4e the fighter using Come and Get It to bunch the enemies together so the wizard can Thunderwave them over the cliff is "group optimisation"?</p><p></p><p>Do you think clever thinking only counts as clever when it doesn't involve the players having their PCs interact?</p><p></p><p>Another way of looking at is that they are all of the non-combat part of the game. Whether or not that is small I guess depends upon the group.</p><p></p><p>Except on PHB pp 179 and 259, which have detailed characterisations. Also peppered throughout the skill, ritual and (in later books) power descriptions.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6326848, member: 42582"] Well the first criticism follows from the second, doesn't it? If you argue that an RPG system sucks because it ruins RPGing, you can expect disagreement from those RPGers who think the system is a good one! In my view the best RPG systems ensure that making choices around a fictional concept will result in a mathematically adequate character sheet. To date I have found 4e fairly robust in this respect, certainly compared to other fantasy RPG systems that I have used. I don't really follow. Schwalb comments on how others play and enjoy the game. He does so in pejorative terms. Some of those people he's commented on don't agree with his (pejorative) characterisation of how they play the game. And you're surprised that they express that disagreement? I think most of them have comprehended him perfectly well. They just don't agree with his description of them. Perhaps they're self-deluded, but I'm not sure that either you or Schwalb is in a good position to know that. I'm sure he's sincere. But I still take the view that if you're going to tell others that their approach to RPGing has spoiled the game, you have to be prepared to have at least some of them disagree with you. And not all that disagreement is going to be unreasonable, either! I don't understand your reply at all. How is finding clever ways to synergise the PCs' range of abilities "group optimisation" in some way that contrasts (pejoratively) with clever thinking? How come in AD&D the wizard casting an infravision spell on the thief so the latter can scout ahead is "clever play", but in 4e the fighter using Come and Get It to bunch the enemies together so the wizard can Thunderwave them over the cliff is "group optimisation"? Do you think clever thinking only counts as clever when it doesn't involve the players having their PCs interact? Another way of looking at is that they are all of the non-combat part of the game. Whether or not that is small I guess depends upon the group. Except on PHB pp 179 and 259, which have detailed characterisations. Also peppered throughout the skill, ritual and (in later books) power descriptions. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Blog Post by Robert J. Schwalb
Top