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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Libramarian" data-source="post: 6330596" data-attributes="member: 6688858">Then Diablo happened and the tagline for 3e was "Back to the Dungeon"...I think you should consider the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect" target="_blank">false consensus effect</a> next time you're about to make a rhetorical point by claiming that most people share your preferences.I was, but in a game design sense, not a moral sense (should have made that clear in my comment on the blog; I think that part is where he decided I was trolling). Keeping the GM happy is most important for the health of the overall game.I can see how using the forced movement to impale  a beholder on a  stalactite involves creative use of the fiction. That  sounds cool. It just seems like such poor judgement to limit the Command  spell in this way though. If 4e supports pushing monsters into  stalactites with Command, I can't imagine that it would break anything  to also allow the spell to force them to grovel or drop what they're  holding, etc.Interesting (can't xp unfortunately!). I think this is a good description of what GMs do in RPGs in  general--give the players something to want (or guide them in choosing  it) and then put obstacles in their way (or bring new implications of  the thing they want to light so they have to reconsider whether/how  badly they want it). It makes sense to me how you do that with 4e but I  like how a lot of that is "baked into" classic D&D in a certain  form. The players want XP, which they get mostly by finding treasure. To  get it they have to go through a dungeon, and the game includes rules  for building dungeons (better in Basic than AD&D).Encounter balance is less consistent, but the appearance of a very tough  monster/trap once in a while gives stretches of easy encounters more  tension, because the players remember the last really tough thing and  are wondering when the next one will show up. Consistent balance isn't  necessary for consistent tension. I think this is really the idea behind  the OSR "zen moment" of "forget game balance".The disadvantage, of course, of baking these things into the game, is  that it's the same thing every time you play. You can give the PCs other  goals and things to care about (and I do), but long stretches of the dungeon-crawl  treasure-hunting game will reduce the focus on those things. I think if someone dislikes 4e because too much time is spent on combat rather than developing "the story", they would probably be even more frustrated in my game, because dungeons in my game do the same thing and take even longer to resolve.</blockquote>

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