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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6331644" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>That I'll disagree with. There's a reason it's a second level cleric spell. By the time the group is 3rd level, you should be descending into the third (or maybe 4th) level of the dungeon. Which, if you are keeping strict time, means that you'd have to carry so much oil for your lamps that it becomes rather unpractical and, more importantly, not much fun. While accounting is important, there are limits. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>So, we see a 3rd level party no longer needing light. A 5th level party no longer needs to carry food. A 7th level party can now summon campsites (Leomund's Tiny Hut is a 4th level spell IIRC). And so on. As the party progresses up the levels, the logistical elements become less and less important.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure I agree with that. The first Shackled City adventure (whose name I'm blanking on right now) features a sprawling dungeon crawl where you can avoid most of the encounters and you are given a goal (rescue the orphans) at the outset which isn't clear and loot. Maure Castle and it's add ons are certainly renowned for their old school approach (obviously so). There were quite a few Dungeon adventures where logistical approaches were certainly implied, if not absolutely needed.</p><p></p><p>To be fair, the "story dungeon" is very common as well, so, you can certainly find lots of examples of that sort of thing too - particularly the "lair dungeon" where the dungeon crawl is only a half a dozen encounters spread across dozen rooms. It's more just a single lair than a true dungeon.</p><p></p><p>But give credit where credit is due, 3e and 3.5 are very good systems for doing logistical dungeon crawls. They're just so detailed mechanically, that you can easily do old school type mega-dungeons with logistical approaches. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is a prime example here, although that's 3e, not 3.5. World's Largest Dungeon. DCC. Rappan Athuk. On and on. Granted, I pretty much ignored WOTC's stand alone modules, so, I really don't know much about them other than what I've read. From impressions, I'd say that they are more story based, but, that's not unusual either.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 6331644, member: 22779"] That I'll disagree with. There's a reason it's a second level cleric spell. By the time the group is 3rd level, you should be descending into the third (or maybe 4th) level of the dungeon. Which, if you are keeping strict time, means that you'd have to carry so much oil for your lamps that it becomes rather unpractical and, more importantly, not much fun. While accounting is important, there are limits. :D So, we see a 3rd level party no longer needing light. A 5th level party no longer needs to carry food. A 7th level party can now summon campsites (Leomund's Tiny Hut is a 4th level spell IIRC). And so on. As the party progresses up the levels, the logistical elements become less and less important. I'm not sure I agree with that. The first Shackled City adventure (whose name I'm blanking on right now) features a sprawling dungeon crawl where you can avoid most of the encounters and you are given a goal (rescue the orphans) at the outset which isn't clear and loot. Maure Castle and it's add ons are certainly renowned for their old school approach (obviously so). There were quite a few Dungeon adventures where logistical approaches were certainly implied, if not absolutely needed. To be fair, the "story dungeon" is very common as well, so, you can certainly find lots of examples of that sort of thing too - particularly the "lair dungeon" where the dungeon crawl is only a half a dozen encounters spread across dozen rooms. It's more just a single lair than a true dungeon. But give credit where credit is due, 3e and 3.5 are very good systems for doing logistical dungeon crawls. They're just so detailed mechanically, that you can easily do old school type mega-dungeons with logistical approaches. Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil is a prime example here, although that's 3e, not 3.5. World's Largest Dungeon. DCC. Rappan Athuk. On and on. Granted, I pretty much ignored WOTC's stand alone modules, so, I really don't know much about them other than what I've read. From impressions, I'd say that they are more story based, but, that's not unusual either. [/QUOTE]
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