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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4138562" data-attributes="member: 710">I think one of the advantages of 4E is that it's easier to compare powers and special maneuvers, since there is a more or less clearer scale.We have: - Basic Attacks. Nothing fancy. Attack, deal damage, no special effects.- At Will Powers: Attack with or plus minor special effect (pushing, higher bonus, small rider buff)- Per Encounter Powers: More damage + minor effect, or normal damage and better effect- Per Day Powers: More Damage, plus strong effect.If you want to rule a unusual maneuver, you can use this as a base-line: - Throw Salt is easy to do if you stack up on salt. So, it deals no damage and grants a minor benefit. Making it on par with basic attacks, maybe at-will powers.- Turn Tables to trip multiple foes: Requires the presence of a table, so it should compare to a per encounter power.It's a bit more difficult to compare this in 3E, but I think Mikes Iron Might rules might provide good enough guidelines for that. The only problem: You stack up on a lot of penalties. -4 (or -5) for "unproficient" use, attack of opportunity. And here is the 4E "secret" at work - it's opportunity cost. Sure you can throw salt every round, but you could also use your at-will power every round, and that one is pretty decent, too. 3E is not totally free of this - at higher levels, anything that negated your full attack as a fighter was probably inferior. But the more or less standard maneuvers (trip, disarm, sunder) did only require an attack (or was it different for sunder?). And you could negate all other penalties. And some (read: Trip) could be used very effectively with the right feats and not-to-large monsters, without having to sacrifice a potential damage dealing attack (at high level, whose last attack has a chance to hit anyway? Better trip the enemy and set him up for a 4 point power attack, or give the Non-Full-BAB classes a better chance to hit.)</blockquote>

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