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<blockquote data-quote="JeDiWiker" data-source="post: 4144968" data-attributes="member: 53136">This post actually inspired me to discuss the idea of competence, heroics, and heroic competence on <a href="http://jediwiker.livejournal.com/" target="_blank">my blog today</a>.Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that the lack of D&amp;D &quot;feel&quot; to what I've seen of 4E actually lies in the subsystems and naming conventions. Again, I'm talking about how it feels to ME--your mileage may vary:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">&quot;Once per encounter&quot; powers feel like TCG mechanics (I believe the notion of &quot;power cards&quot; that can be tapped to show when they've been exhausted has been discussed somewhere here on ENWorld, in fact)</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The naming conventions of the powers feel like an MMORPG</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">The naming conventions of the monsters (&quot;kobold skirmisher,&quot; &quot;hobgoblin warcaster,&quot; &quot;deathjump spider,&quot; etc.) feels like Wizards' minis games to me</li>
</ul>So, in essence, the more of a TCG, MMO, or CMG feel the game has, the less of a D&amp;D feel it's likely to have. Now, it's arguable that the feel is in the adventure, or the DM, or the players, or whatever--but I well remember playtesters complaining that d20 Star Wars felt like &quot;D&amp;D in space&quot; because it used D&amp;D rules mechanics, so at least some of that &quot;look and feel&quot; issue is in the mechanics. For that matter, if I tried to design a new version of, say, the Warhammer FRP, and I used playing cards instead of dice (a la Deadlands), had the spells work like Magic: the Gathering, and renamed all of the careers to &quot;Blaster,&quot; &quot;Controller,&quot; &quot;Tanker,&quot; &quot;Scrapper,&quot; and &quot;Defender,&quot; (as in City of Heroes), even if all of those changes made it a better game in the long run, there would be at least a few people out there who would say &quot;It doesn't seem like Warhammer anymore.&quot;4th Edition may be the best edition of D&amp;D yet, but I, personally, find the derivative features a bit off-putting. When I sit down to play D&amp;D, I don't want to be reminded of TCGs, MMOs, or CMGs, because those aren't D&amp;D to me any more than Rainbow Six: Vegas is.JD[EDITED TO FIX SOME TYPOS]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="JeDiWiker, post: 4144968, member: 53136"] This post actually inspired me to discuss the idea of competence, heroics, and heroic competence on [URL=http://jediwiker.livejournal.com/]my blog today[/URL]. Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think that the lack of D&D "feel" to what I've seen of 4E actually lies in the subsystems and naming conventions. Again, I'm talking about how it feels to ME--your mileage may vary: [list] [*]"Once per encounter" powers feel like TCG mechanics (I believe the notion of "power cards" that can be tapped to show when they've been exhausted has been discussed somewhere here on ENWorld, in fact) [*]The naming conventions of the powers feel like an MMORPG [*]The naming conventions of the monsters ("kobold skirmisher," "hobgoblin warcaster," "deathjump spider," etc.) feels like Wizards' minis games to me [/list] So, in essence, the more of a TCG, MMO, or CMG feel the game has, the less of a D&D feel it's likely to have. Now, it's arguable that the feel is in the adventure, or the DM, or the players, or whatever--but I well remember playtesters complaining that d20 [I]Star Wars[/I] felt like "D&D in space" because it used D&D rules mechanics, so at least some of that "look and feel" issue is in the mechanics. For that matter, if I tried to design a new version of, say, the [I]Warhammer FRP[/I], and I used playing cards instead of dice (a la [I]Deadlands[/I]), had the spells work like [I]Magic: the Gathering[/I], and renamed all of the careers to "Blaster," "Controller," "Tanker," "Scrapper," and "Defender," (as in [I]City of Heroes[/I]), [B]even if all of those changes made it a better game in the long run[/B], there would be at least a few people out there who would say "It doesn't seem like [I]Warhammer[/I] anymore." 4th Edition may be the best edition of D&D yet, but I, personally, find the derivative features a bit off-putting. When I sit down to play D&D, I don't [I]want[/I] to be reminded of TCGs, MMOs, or CMGs, because those aren't D&D to me any more than [I]Rainbow Six: Vegas[/I] is. JD [EDITED TO FIX SOME TYPOS] [/QUOTE]

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