Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Blurring the lines between spells and rituals
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5967431" data-attributes="member: 11300"><p>I think <em>Knock </em>presents a very interesting spell to examine this whole idea within the context of character and class dynamics. Imagine all the forms you could see this in:</p><p></p><p>* <strong>At-Will/Cantrip Casting</strong>: This is where the caster literally knocks on the door, with the magic attempting to encourage the door to unlock and magically open (looks neat when it works first time). For this to work at such a low/cantrip level, it should only be allowed by the caster and it should magically enhance the caster's normal capacity to unlock things. This enhancing should mean that the Rogue is still superior (particularly getting a minimum of 10 on their roll), but that the wizard would then be the next most capable in the group and capable enough for most things if the party lacks a rogue. The obvious complication for this is that it might take 3 or more goes, by which time whoever is on the other side of the door has become well aware that someone is trying to get in and getting ample opportunity to prepare.</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Vancian Casting</strong>: This is the more heavy duty of the spells and it costs a slot in preparation. How do you do this though without treading on the rogue's toes? The obvious way is as Danny Alcatraz suggests. The bonus is perhaps a little bigger and it can now be bestowed upon any target creature, with their hand/paw glowing until the magic is used or fades away (duration ends). The advantage here is a swap of physical resources cost (value of stuff in gp from a ritual) for a vancian resources cost (it impinges upon a wizard's overall casting capacity).</p><p></p><p>* <strong>Ritual Casting</strong>: Here is where you can have more than one <em>knock </em>ritual, working in different ways. The important things about rituals are:</p><p></p><p>- They have a resource cost (requiring cost-significant components and possibly an expensive focus).</p><p>- They have a time cost: Rituals take longer than a handful of rounds to cast.</p><p>- You have to learn how to do them which requires finding the ritual and then successfully understanding it so it can then be performed. This <em><strong>should </strong></em>be a significant factor.</p><p>- Rituals must be performed which requires a check. The DC for this varies and may be quite significant. In addition, some rituals even if they are understood may be botched.</p><p></p><p>And so two possible <em>knock </em>rituals:</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Zustiur's Summoning</em></strong></p><p>1) One <em>knock </em>ritual might be easily learned, have only average cost but be somewhat dangerous (it might be easily botched). It might summon an Imp who is then bargained with to open the portal. The imp might be quite effective at opening even the strangest of portals, particularly ones that might be trapped. Once opened, the Imp is released back from whence it came. A botched ritual might have some of the imagined difficulties when a summoning goes awry.</p><p></p><p><strong><em>The Key of Gold</em></strong></p><p>2) Another <em>knock </em>ritual might be challenging to learn and cast, take a good chunk of time, have average cost but require an expensive focus (a key made of gold with an expensive diamond clasped where the key is to be held). This ritual imbues the key with magic. This in turn allows its user/wearer to gain a significant and ongoing bonus if worn to their checks (it may even provide advantage on all checks made with it). The key lasts for 24 hours (or a significant period of time) or until the wearer decides to actually use the key. When using the key in such a way, the portal is opened as if the user had rolled a 20 and if any traps or other devices or magic were attached to the portal, such things would not be set off or work. Whichever way, when the magic's duration wears off, the key becomes dull and inert and unsuitable for the same <em>knock </em>ritual for an extended period of time (from a day to even a week or a month perhaps). This might be dependent upon the quality of the casting of the ritual.</p><p></p><p>Just some thoughts how you could make this work, keep things balanced and without treading upon the toes of a class specialized in similar pursuits.</p><p></p><p>Best Regards</p><p>Herremann the Wise</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Herremann the Wise, post: 5967431, member: 11300"] I think [I]Knock [/I]presents a very interesting spell to examine this whole idea within the context of character and class dynamics. Imagine all the forms you could see this in: * [B]At-Will/Cantrip Casting[/B]: This is where the caster literally knocks on the door, with the magic attempting to encourage the door to unlock and magically open (looks neat when it works first time). For this to work at such a low/cantrip level, it should only be allowed by the caster and it should magically enhance the caster's normal capacity to unlock things. This enhancing should mean that the Rogue is still superior (particularly getting a minimum of 10 on their roll), but that the wizard would then be the next most capable in the group and capable enough for most things if the party lacks a rogue. The obvious complication for this is that it might take 3 or more goes, by which time whoever is on the other side of the door has become well aware that someone is trying to get in and getting ample opportunity to prepare. * [B]Vancian Casting[/B]: This is the more heavy duty of the spells and it costs a slot in preparation. How do you do this though without treading on the rogue's toes? The obvious way is as Danny Alcatraz suggests. The bonus is perhaps a little bigger and it can now be bestowed upon any target creature, with their hand/paw glowing until the magic is used or fades away (duration ends). The advantage here is a swap of physical resources cost (value of stuff in gp from a ritual) for a vancian resources cost (it impinges upon a wizard's overall casting capacity). * [B]Ritual Casting[/B]: Here is where you can have more than one [I]knock [/I]ritual, working in different ways. The important things about rituals are: - They have a resource cost (requiring cost-significant components and possibly an expensive focus). - They have a time cost: Rituals take longer than a handful of rounds to cast. - You have to learn how to do them which requires finding the ritual and then successfully understanding it so it can then be performed. This [I][B]should [/B][/I]be a significant factor. - Rituals must be performed which requires a check. The DC for this varies and may be quite significant. In addition, some rituals even if they are understood may be botched. And so two possible [I]knock [/I]rituals: [B][I]Zustiur's Summoning[/I][/B] 1) One [I]knock [/I]ritual might be easily learned, have only average cost but be somewhat dangerous (it might be easily botched). It might summon an Imp who is then bargained with to open the portal. The imp might be quite effective at opening even the strangest of portals, particularly ones that might be trapped. Once opened, the Imp is released back from whence it came. A botched ritual might have some of the imagined difficulties when a summoning goes awry. [B][I]The Key of Gold[/I][/B] 2) Another [I]knock [/I]ritual might be challenging to learn and cast, take a good chunk of time, have average cost but require an expensive focus (a key made of gold with an expensive diamond clasped where the key is to be held). This ritual imbues the key with magic. This in turn allows its user/wearer to gain a significant and ongoing bonus if worn to their checks (it may even provide advantage on all checks made with it). The key lasts for 24 hours (or a significant period of time) or until the wearer decides to actually use the key. When using the key in such a way, the portal is opened as if the user had rolled a 20 and if any traps or other devices or magic were attached to the portal, such things would not be set off or work. Whichever way, when the magic's duration wears off, the key becomes dull and inert and unsuitable for the same [I]knock [/I]ritual for an extended period of time (from a day to even a week or a month perhaps). This might be dependent upon the quality of the casting of the ritual. Just some thoughts how you could make this work, keep things balanced and without treading upon the toes of a class specialized in similar pursuits. Best Regards Herremann the Wise [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Blurring the lines between spells and rituals
Top