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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 5967998" data-attributes="member: 19675">We're in the same neighborhood.Wizards, as academic casters, would have access to cantrips, spells &amp; rituals, but would be limited in amounts cast per day in typical Vancian style.&nbsp; They would, however, have access to a wider variety of known magics, and could alter their arsenal with a bit of study time, and could always expand their list.Clerics- also studious, but not in the same way as Wizards- would also have access to orisons, spells, &amp; rituals, but their lists of would be rigidly defined by their faith.&nbsp; Learning magic outside of those lists would be done via a &quot;Forbidden Knowledge&quot; Feat.Sorcerers and other &quot;intuitive&quot; or &quot;innate&quot; casters would know cantrips &amp; spells, but soul have to burn feats to learn any rituals.&nbsp; Their cantrip/orison use might even be unlimited at-wills.Bards- you nailed.Lesser casters whose powers come from some kind of pact with extraplanar beings- Warlocks, Paladins, etc.- would have a rigidly defined lists of cantrips/orisons and spells.&nbsp; Their access to rituals would be class-dependent.&nbsp; Warlocks might start off with one or two.&nbsp; Paladins* might not know any to start, and would be restricted on what kinds they could learn- healing rituals OK, undead creation, probably not.I still think the cantrip version of Knock should be limited to giving a bonus to someone with skill, but I could see a solid argument for it working your way.* or, if the game has &quot;Holy Warriors&quot; instead of Paladins, their list would be definede by their faith- resembling a watered-down version of what their clerics have.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 5967998, member: 19675"] We're in the same neighborhood. Wizards, as academic casters, would have access to cantrips, spells & rituals, but would be limited in amounts cast per day in typical Vancian style. They would, however, have access to a wider variety of known magics, and could alter their arsenal with a bit of study time, and could always expand their list. Clerics- also studious, but not in the same way as Wizards- would also have access to orisons, spells, & rituals, but their lists of would be rigidly defined by their faith. Learning magic outside of those lists would be done via a "Forbidden Knowledge" Feat. Sorcerers and other "intuitive" or "innate" casters would know cantrips & spells, but soul have to burn feats to learn any rituals. Their cantrip/orison use might even be unlimited at-wills. Bards- you nailed. Lesser casters whose powers come from some kind of pact with extraplanar beings- Warlocks, Paladins, etc.- would have a rigidly defined lists of cantrips/orisons and spells. Their access to rituals would be class-dependent. Warlocks might start off with one or two. Paladins* might not know any to start, and would be restricted on what kinds they could learn- healing rituals OK, undead creation, probably not. I still think the cantrip version of Knock should be limited to giving a bonus to someone with skill, but I could see a solid argument for it working your way. * or, if the game has "Holy Warriors" instead of Paladins, their list would be definede by their faith- resembling a watered-down version of what their clerics have. [/QUOTE]

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