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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jasin" data-source="post: 3456204" data-attributes="member: 7531">Overall, I like 'em. Particularly how you managed to make two different styles of archery.IME, most people tend to treat ammunition like material components: barring extraordinary circumstances, if you need it, you have it. Of course, in this extraordinary circumstances, this would be useful, but I'm not sure it really warrants a 3rd-level stance. You can only use one stance at the time, and you cannot swap known stances later, so I don't think something this situational is very useful.This really doesn't compare well to time stands still, or with the discipline's other strikes.If you're a warblade, 2 full attacks get you +20/+15/+10/+5/+20/+15/+10/+5. Jade arrow flare (5th-level) gets you +20/+15/+20/+15/+10/+5, more than half the benefit, without any drawbacks, and with the additional option of making it +20/+20/+15 plus a move action, since it's a boost.If you're a swordsage, tears of heaven are even less attractive, since you only get 6 attacks compared to the JAF's 5.Also, note that fatigue is particularly damaging for an archer. -2 Str, -2 Dex will tend to mean -1 damage, -3 to attack, since the -2 Str will likely take you below the Str rating of your bow.BTW, my favorite one is field of quills.Edit: OK, I now see that TOH is already being debated in depth... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It does make sense to include some penalties if you feel times stands still is over the top. I'm not sure it is, compared to stuff like the heal thing from Devoted Mind, or the approach-attack-for-+100-disengage possible with strike of perfect clarity + sudden leap. I'd rather be working with the assumption that the other disciplines' 9th-level maneuvers are OK, and adjust if needed after seeing it in play. If TSS and TOH are too much without the penalties, add penalties to both.But what I'd really like to see as the 9th-level maneuver for Celestial Rain is something new, rather than just "TSS for ranged".OTOH, now that I look at it, Diamond Arrow's 9th-level seems a bit over the top (compared to strike of perfect clarity). A character using it will be in a Diamond Arrow stance, so it's either +100 damage or +150 damage if you're willing to give up Dex to AC, and +2d4 Dex on top. Also, why Dex?</blockquote>

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