BoED: Saint ?!?

[HonJull]

Is it just me or does the Saint seem a bit over powered for only a +2 ECL? has anyone out there scaled it down to actually be a +2? I was thinking of letting one of my players have access to it, but I was going to make it +3 or 4 or scale it down. Or... am I just too new at all of this and crazy?

Thanks,

 

[HonJull]

Bump.... Anyone?

 

[Anabstercorian]

You're exactly right. In fact, it explicitly says in the Book of Exalted Deeds that the Saint template is INTENTIONALLY undervalued so it rewards characters who achieve it by giving them greater than average power.

 

[Halivar]

IOW, don't give this out unless it has been dearly earned. Like, if a character dies three times performing heroics acts in the same quest.

Like my last character...

 

[TroyXavier]

Yeah, the saint is a template you should never start out with. It's great for ones who truely earn it(same as real saints)

 

[Saeviomagy]

You're exactly right. In fact, it explicitly says in the Book of Exalted Deeds that the Saint template is INTENTIONALLY undervalued so it rewards characters who achieve it by giving them greater than average power.

Whoever thought that one up is a dead-set moron.
How's a DM supposed to balance challenges if the template was deliberately written to break the CR system?

 

[Cbas10]

Whoever thought that one up is a dead-set moron.
How's a DM supposed to balance challenges if the template was deliberately written to break the CR system?

The same way he always does it. Sure, this means the Saint character will have a bit of an easier time with things, but that is why it is called a reward. In keeping with many other themes in that book, becoming a Saint and maintaining one's self as such should be extraordinarily difficult.

It seems to be a growing trend that people thing balancing game mechanics with role-playing requirements is a BAD thing. Most of said players concerned about the Saint's "balance issues" have obviously not gotten the point of the Books of Exalted Deeds or Vile Darkness. Those books are not "for mature audiences" because of a nipple-slip or a couple pages of violent drawings. They were labelled as such because of the issues and themes inside; they were not meant for "casual killing/hack-n-slashing" styles of games.

 

[Ackem]

IOW, don't give this out unless it has been dearly earned. Like, if a character dies three times performing heroics acts in the same quest.

Dying isn't very heroic or noteworthy in D&D. It's like getting a papercut in the real world, except a papercut can't be instantly healed.

D&D manages to drains pretty much all of the drama and sacrifice out of dying for a cause. Most martyrs are probably all "sup d00ds, be back in 5" right before they bite it.

 

[Si_RW]

as one of the earlier posts said this must be earned many diferent classes or feats or prestige classes are really up to the dm, this being one of those. the player for me would have to give good reason for me to give it to him. also remember that although the pc may be powerful i would expect some pretty nasty things coming after him. check out the book of vile darkness. this may give you ideas on how to mess with this pc.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

A character in a game I'm in just got the template and he's extremely powerful. That doesn't include the minor artifact that came with it. And we weren't even on a quest.