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<blockquote data-quote="Steampunkette" data-source="post: 8269446" data-attributes="member: 6796468">I dunno if it's possible, either. But with help granting Expertise dice and those dice increasing in size rather than quantity, it may be possible for a whole mess of people to help.And having a whole mess of people help won't actually be as big a thing as it would be if advantage stacked.AllOlive showed a level 20 character with Proficiency and Maximum Stat in a given task having a +11 bonus. And then an average of +11 from the two sources (1d8/4.5 and 1d12/6.5)But to compare it to a character with advantage we don't need to compare proficiency or stat mods, because it'll be the same in both cases. We also don't need to compare Bardic Inspiration or other external dice, because those things also exist in both cases.With Advantage you have a 51% chance of getting a 15 or higher. Plus Bardic Inspiration Dice, Bless Dice, Etc.With 1d12 of Expertise you have about a 50% chance of getting a 16 or higher. Plus Bardic Inspiration Dice, etc.It breaks out to about even if you can get a whole lotta expertise compared to one thing granting you advantage.But. They stack, right? Advantage plus Expertise work together which is just marvelous for allowing characters to do some ridiculously high end skill-use. 'Cause so far I've seen nothing that allows Expertise Dice on Attack Rolls or Saving Throws. Though perhaps I haven't paid enough attention?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Steampunkette, post: 8269446, member: 6796468"] I dunno if it's possible, either. But with help granting Expertise dice and those dice increasing in size rather than quantity, it may be possible for a whole mess of people to help. And having a whole mess of people help won't actually be as big a thing as it would be if advantage stacked. AllOlive showed a level 20 character with Proficiency and Maximum Stat in a given task having a +11 bonus. And then an average of +11 from the two sources (1d8/4.5 and 1d12/6.5) But to compare it to a character with advantage we don't need to compare proficiency or stat mods, because it'll be the same in both cases. We also don't need to compare Bardic Inspiration or other external dice, because those things also exist in both cases. With Advantage you have a 51% chance of getting a 15 or higher. Plus Bardic Inspiration Dice, Bless Dice, Etc. With 1d12 of Expertise you have about a 50% chance of getting a 16 or higher. Plus Bardic Inspiration Dice, etc. It breaks out to about even if you can get a whole lotta expertise compared to one thing granting you advantage. But. They stack, right? Advantage plus Expertise work together which is just marvelous for allowing characters to do some ridiculously high end skill-use. 'Cause so far I've seen nothing that allows Expertise Dice on Attack Rolls or Saving Throws. Though perhaps I haven't paid enough attention? [/QUOTE]

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