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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Thanatos" data-source="post: 3044680" data-attributes="member: 5261">If he has the stance. Perhaps that wasn't an optimal example. Its 2 hp per successful attack, of which he gets 1 until 6th level. Even the 4 hp ability is pretty nominal in the scheme of 11th/12th level, but at least he gets more attacks then. Sneak Attack +1d6 at first level is more powerful in comparison.I never said he wasn't powerful. All the classes in the book are powerful...just not necessairly overpowered compared to the core classes. Building a regular melee comparable to one of these classes would require expanded source books, not just core material.There is no burning flourish, I made that up by accident, I beg pardon. LOL. I meant Fan The Flames (6d6 touch attack; no save) vs Death Marl (6d6 save reflex 1/2 variable area, most likely 10') -- Blistering Flourish is no comparison to these two abilities, which are still on par with a wizards spells.He's not going to be doing damage to the wizard at range, the wizard is going to be doing lots of rangers and/or AoE damage to his meager 5d8 hp. I agree, in a melee combat, the wizard is toast. Also, it doesn't have to focus on Fireball, there are lower level spells like Melf's Acid Arrow which are perfect potent for a single target or Lightning Bolt for multiples. So I still see very well how a wizard could easily compete against a virtually rangeless opponent (except thrown weapons...vs fly for instance or blink).I'll grant you that if the campaign focuses on 10 combats a sesson, the classes in Nine Swords will seriously leave behind every other class in the game. But the paradigm is 4 combats a session and within that, they seem decently balanced. If you have more then that, you should considering changing the mechanics of casters and other classes relying on x/day abilities.I agree, constructs, undead, etc. do limit them, but at the same time...there are mobs that are flame resistant or immune as well and that will cut out alot of the swordsages advantages too, so I think that equals out, so to speak. I agree, both abilities are really nice and I think on par with each other. Additionally, the rogue could be sneak attacking from range as well. I've had Divine Health come up more then a few times...I suppose its in all the style of play, but style of play can nominalize ALOT of class abilities and options...the desert campaign where everything is fire resistant hurts the swordsage alot more then the wizard or the fighter. My point here was, these paladin abilities can very well mimic what the swordsage has in comparitave power.I disagree, the monk gets a better AC Bonus overall. The swordsage gets it in light armor, but his never improves -- the monk's improves. The swordsage does get evasion (later), so they kinda cancel each other out in my example. Well the swordsage won't be able to keep up with the fighter or barbarian overall either, unless its a very, very short fight...he doesn't have the ac or hit points for it...like the monk, he is more of a skirmish character, moving in, attacking and moving out...he just has more damage capability then the monk (i.e. not relegated to the trip/grapple schtick).Yes, and I will continue to disagree with you as well <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I'm not saying (again) these classes aren't powerful...and that (especially) compared to the fighter and barbarian two have to work really hard to keep up. I agree these are at the upper part of the power curve, I just don't agree they are overpowered and broken, even at lower levels when I look across the abilities granted to the various classes. I'll grant, I haven't compared everyone at level 20 in actual play though, so perhaps they leave everyone behind once they get in that direction. Thats a good idea about the fighter dipping into the classes as well...but then, I think most people generally agree that a 20th level fighter is a rare thing and most go PrC, which also indicates a problem with that class design, overall (though, you can say the same of Wizard & Bard as well...I never see a straight 20 Wizard or Bard).Added:And for 4th edition -- to give all the classes the comparitative 9th level progression of abilities and fix the way casters regain spells...thats an exciting prospect if this is the way the whole thing is going.</blockquote>

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