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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Solarious" data-source="post: 3058525" data-attributes="member: 27346">I find that spellcasters do just fine, even with ToB out. At higher levels, their damage dealing abilities are no longer as important: they certainly help, but they aren't as important. What is important is their ability to either instantly take one or more opponents instantly and to manipulate the battlefield. It doesn't matter if you can deal 100+ damage in a single strike if a Wall of Force is between you and the opponent. Who really cares about a 9th level strike which kills instantly that is available only at high levels? A 9th level Wizard does what is essentially the same with with Baleful Polymorph; and can even return the victim to normal for interrogation or turn them in for a reward if you want to. Time Stands Still silliness? Ha! Righteous Might, Quickened Divine Power, and you're a bigger melee monster than most fighters, depending on how well they're optimized and what buffs you have cast already.And I challenge everyone to find an effect in the ToB that rivals the versatility and raw power of Gate, which brings in a CR23 monster with full cleric spellcasting, a +5 Dancing Vorpral Greatsword, a +2 Composite Longbow that generates Slaying arrows at will, and an insane number of spell-like abilities.Did I mention it also has Wish?With that kind of power, the 1000XP cost is trivial. Wish alone would more than make up for it 5 times over.Besides domineering combat, spellcasters also excell outside of it. A Warblade can't Teleport his companions hundreds of miles away in the time it takes to mumble a few words a touch his friends. A Swordsage can't make a captive spill their guts by using Charm Monster to make them their new best friends. And a Crusader certainly can't bring down a Permament Prismatic Sphere, let alone know which key spells to cast, so she can get at the Lich's Phylactery stashed away within.This is all Core, without splatbook nonsense. Worry not, Wizards, Clerics, and Druids, least of all, have little to fear from being overshadowed by anything from the ToB.Fighters (and most other melee classes, to a certain extent), on the other hand, have always been traditionally underpowered, with a surplus of feats and nowhere for them to go. ToB (and the PHBII in particular) can do much to even the odds, especially if you make modifications (I like the houserule of Fighter level -2 Initiator level for manuvers/stances) and take all factors into consideration. And all material should undergo this process of evalutation.Otherwise, you'll end up with Pun-Pun, the Overdeity, who has infinite everything (including time), is all things, and is all possibilities. At once. And you know how that turns out.</blockquote>

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