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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Leugren" data-source="post: 3059860" data-attributes="member: 44754">Sorry to disagree, TG, but your thread doesn't really prove that much about the efficacy of the Power Attack feat.  If it proves anything at all, it proves that uber-charger builds can more than hold their own against most martial adept builds. The problem with this line of reasoning is that you're comparing extremes rather than norms.  Unless you believe that uber-chargers represent the norm as far as melee builds go, then your examples obscure the fact that, without AoO specialization or charge/pounce cheese, the damage potential for the average  melee combat specialist really blows compared to his/her average ToB counterpart.  You're also playing right into the claims of the naysayers on this thread who argue that the pro-ToB group on this thread is divided into two contradictory camps:CAMP #1: "Warriors were underpowered. ToB gave them a much-needed boost."CAMP #2: "Warriors have always been more powerful. ToB didn't actually increase the power level."Both camps can't be correct!  With the arguments you put forth, you seem to be arguing for the beliefs of camp #2, but I know you believe melee combat specialists have always been underpowered relative to most of the spellcasting classes at higher levels.This is really the argument that we should be driving home against these guys.I therefore still contend that a typical sword and board melee build absolutely blows compared to a typical spellcaster build beyond around 8th level.  If we are going to discuss issues of balance between the classes, then we need to examine a full spectrum of builds which, taken collectively, comprise a bell-shaped normal distribution in terms of efficacy and damage potential.  I hold that the median of this normal distribution for fighters really blows compared to the median for spellcasters.  Uber-chargers and AoO specialists are not the median but rather the extremes, and comparing extremes is unreliable in statistical analysis.  The ToB gives a much-needed boost to the median for melee combat specialists relative to the median for spellcasters.</blockquote>

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