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Message: <blockquote data-quote="brehobit" data-source="post: 3631516" data-attributes="member: 12032">Those can get past epic DR or 20/-?  Actually, a swordsage can't, but your point is taken, anyone with a +6 or better BAB would suffer a real limitation.  None-the-less, would people really be okay with a 2nd level cleric spell that, as a standard action, let you take a single attack that ignored all DR?  It might be balanced, but especially at higher levels it could be pretty handy.  As a 9th level melee cleric I'd certainly keep it on my short list.  Adding 2d6 damage would make it one of my most common spells.  If I was moving and attacking (no charge) that round anyways, it would be better than the standard action attack I was going to take no matter what...  Two things.  #1 as a first level spell slot (rather than a maneuver slot) I'd almost certainly take it at higher levels (say 7 and up) as a mage or cleric.  Get to use a first level spell as an immediate action to stop a charge?  That's huge: it costs you only a first level spell and an immediate action (which you likely weren't using anyways unless you've got a rod of quickening or something) and it is just as good as a daze.#2 Trying again is just fine.  First of all, you can place him in a position where he can't charge on the next round.  Secondly, you've negated a standard action by a baddy.  That's mighty handy.Druid does an empowered summons, and a quickened (minor) summons mage does the same.  Warblade starts the charge.  Game over for a CR 30 baddy.  It takes work, but I really don't think there exists much of anything under CR 30 that can take it.I agree it takes work.  My argument is that those abilities above would be quite powerful as spells and/or are more powerful than spells of the same level.  I don't see this as a show-stopper per se, but I do think it contributes to the balance problems with these classes.MarkMark</blockquote>

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