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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zurai" data-source="post: 3632248" data-attributes="member: 52324">Can you provide some examples of such creatures? The only default Summon Nature's Ally tinies are Owls and Monkeys, which are way back at SNA1 and will likely miss even with the large to hit bonus from War Master's Charge. Even if they hit, they'll do 1d4-3+5 damage (DR taking care of 20 of the 25 bonus points).Summon Monster is similarly restricted to Celestial/Fiendish tiny animals at SM1, which will have similar problems hitting and dealing damage.Here's some quick math...Assumptions: 1 druid and 1 mage casting an Empowered Summon 3 spell and a Quickened Summon 3 spell, both for Summon 1 monsters (resulting in 2d4*150% + 2d4 + 4 animals) and getting the average result (11 animals).The animals summoned are owls, which have an attack of "Talons +5 melee (1d4-3)".Their target is a CR30 Elder Titan, which has 1,015 hit points, AC 58, and DR 45/+7 (translated to DR 20/epic).All of the animals are summoned within 30' of the War Master's Charge initiator and they are all able to charge the nearest square of the Titan unobstructed.The bonus to hit from WMC is thus +24 (11 animals + 1 initiator), giving them a total of +31 to hit (+5 on their attack, +2 for charging, +24 for WMC). They thus need a roll of 27 to hit. I'll be generous and say that one of them rolls a natural 20.We thus have the titan taking 6 damage from the single owl that hits, 30+weapon damage from the initiator, and being stunned for 1 round.Hardly 450-600 damage. Even if ALL of the owls had hit, they would still only have done 6 damage each, for a total of 66 damage. Even if the maximum number of owls had been summoned (24) AND all of them had hit, they would have only done 144 damage.</blockquote>

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