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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7174929" data-attributes="member: 16814">Huh.&nbsp; Could you give me an example of such a spell that targets the entire game world reality?&nbsp; And only one of what exists?Wait, it's shenanigans to have a party member take effective action to assist you against a grapple?&nbsp; What if, instead of casting an INT hex to overcome, they just took the help action to help with the grapple check?&nbsp; Same outcome?&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; And, that ally Warlock just used one of their two spell slots to remove a penalty against a grapple when they could have just hexed the enemy grappler with a STR hex, achieved the same effect, and then EB'ed the enemy grappler to boot.&nbsp; Honestly, if the worst thing here is that your party Warlock makes bad choices, is it really shenanigans?And the curse spell doesn't work like that.&nbsp; It helps to check up on the spell's effects before declaring shenanigans with incorrect effects, but, yes, you could override a curse that was particularly bad with a different one that isn't as immediately bad.&nbsp; But, realistically, the 5th level slot duration is 8 hours -- which means countering that curse cost a 5th level slot that isn't coming back before the duration would run out.&nbsp; For a 7th level slot, it's 24 hours, so same deal.&nbsp; You're burning a slot to get a less immediately bad outcome, and which is absolutely worse that casting the Remove Curse spell, from a much lower level slot (3rd).&nbsp; So it's a worse option.&nbsp; At 9th level slots, I'm burning out a 9th level slot for that swap, when I could have used a 3rd level slot to permanently end the effect with no downsides.There's very little in the way of actual, game bending (much less breaking) results you're going to get out of this ruling.&nbsp; It's almost as if -- brace yourself -- I actually thought through the ramifications of my ruling before I shared it.Now, you may have been thinking of Geas when you wrote the above, and I'm still perfectly fine with a PC geas-ing another PC or NPC to remove a hostile geas spell.&nbsp; Again, considering they could have just used a dispel magic or that 3rd level slotted remove curse to do it without having to come up with a service for a month (or year), this seems just fine to me.&nbsp; I'm still extracting resources, and this way, there's going to be unintended consequences occasionally that will make for fun gaming.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7174929, member: 16814"] Huh. Could you give me an example of such a spell that targets the entire game world reality? And only one of what exists? Wait, it's shenanigans to have a party member take effective action to assist you against a grapple? What if, instead of casting an INT hex to overcome, they just took the help action to help with the grapple check? Same outcome? Yep. And, that ally Warlock just used one of their two spell slots to remove a penalty against a grapple when they could have just hexed the enemy grappler with a STR hex, achieved the same effect, and then EB'ed the enemy grappler to boot. Honestly, if the worst thing here is that your party Warlock makes bad choices, is it really shenanigans? And the curse spell doesn't work like that. It helps to check up on the spell's effects before declaring shenanigans with incorrect effects, but, yes, you could override a curse that was particularly bad with a different one that isn't as immediately bad. But, realistically, the 5th level slot duration is 8 hours -- which means countering that curse cost a 5th level slot that isn't coming back before the duration would run out. For a 7th level slot, it's 24 hours, so same deal. You're burning a slot to get a less immediately bad outcome, and which is absolutely worse that casting the Remove Curse spell, from a much lower level slot (3rd). So it's a worse option. At 9th level slots, I'm burning out a 9th level slot for that swap, when I could have used a 3rd level slot to permanently end the effect with no downsides. There's very little in the way of actual, game bending (much less breaking) results you're going to get out of this ruling. It's almost as if -- brace yourself -- I actually thought through the ramifications of my ruling before I shared it. Now, you may have been thinking of Geas when you wrote the above, and I'm still perfectly fine with a PC geas-ing another PC or NPC to remove a hostile geas spell. Again, considering they could have just used a dispel magic or that 3rd level slotted remove curse to do it without having to come up with a service for a month (or year), this seems just fine to me. I'm still extracting resources, and this way, there's going to be unintended consequences occasionally that will make for fun gaming. [/QUOTE]

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