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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7135876" data-attributes="member: 996">Heh.&nbsp; Yep.&nbsp; Just that kinda thing...&nbsp;Obviously.&nbsp; but, obviously, the 'obvious' considerations can can drive decisions that become habits.&nbsp; If a table's experiencing these kinds of things, then the extant ways to avoid them weren't obvious enough, I guess.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Though they mostly still have the same action-economy cost or same or higher level slot cost, yes. &nbsp;Most of them are spells, and nothing much beyond spells and attack rolls much works without the DM ruling it so.&nbsp; Some players can make the most of that and frequently use such things, others are reluctant to even try and would rather push the button of an attack action or on-label use of a spell.&nbsp; If the OP had the former sort of players, he probably wouldn't be seeing the issues he is, since he is seeing them, a mechanical tweak (just not the one he initially considered) is probably the better way to go - though, maybe he is up for re-training his players, IDK.&nbsp; &nbsp;Variations that'd help have already been tossed out in this and other threads, and the OP can pick-and-choose or come up with something, himself.&nbsp; My point was that if he does so to make the game deadlier or feel more risky or whatever, he's probably just going to deepen the 'problem,' since that only puts a higher premium on managing resources efficiently.&nbsp;I didn't notice 5e having a different rationale for OAs from 2eC&amp;T/3.x/4e...&nbsp; the rationale I'm familiar with - that any enemies in melee are trading blows the whole round (be it 1 min or 6 sec) through, so if you 'drop your guard' you run the risk of being hit - never seemed that nonsensical, to me.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7135876, member: 996"] Heh. Yep. Just that kinda thing... Obviously. but, obviously, the 'obvious' considerations can can drive decisions that become habits. If a table's experiencing these kinds of things, then the extant ways to avoid them weren't obvious enough, I guess. Though they mostly still have the same action-economy cost or same or higher level slot cost, yes. Most of them are spells, and nothing much beyond spells and attack rolls much works without the DM ruling it so. Some players can make the most of that and frequently use such things, others are reluctant to even try and would rather push the button of an attack action or on-label use of a spell. If the OP had the former sort of players, he probably wouldn't be seeing the issues he is, since he is seeing them, a mechanical tweak (just not the one he initially considered) is probably the better way to go - though, maybe he is up for re-training his players, IDK. Variations that'd help have already been tossed out in this and other threads, and the OP can pick-and-choose or come up with something, himself. My point was that if he does so to make the game deadlier or feel more risky or whatever, he's probably just going to deepen the 'problem,' since that only puts a higher premium on managing resources efficiently. I didn't notice 5e having a different rationale for OAs from 2eC&T/3.x/4e... the rationale I'm familiar with - that any enemies in melee are trading blows the whole round (be it 1 min or 6 sec) through, so if you 'drop your guard' you run the risk of being hit - never seemed that nonsensical, to me. [/QUOTE]

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