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Bounded Accuracy and Higher Level Background NPCs
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 6845793" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>From a game balance/challenge perspective, that works just fine.</p><p></p><p>From a simulationist/in-world perspective, it's quite a bit more problematic to justify. When you've got a whole slew of 8th level Eldritch Knights sitting around, and an XP system which emphasizes positive feedback, you hit two big problems: (1) why didn't these guys continue on to 20th level? (2) why does anyone need the PCs?</p><p></p><p>In 2nd edition this wasn't a problem, because "most NPCs are 1st-3rd level" is actually really easy to justify in a game where trying to go from 3rd to 8th level takes ages and is quite likely to get you killed by some save-or-die effect long before you hit 8th. In relatively tame 5E where adventuring is quick, easy, and profitable, it's quite a bit harder to justify. I think I've hit upon the right combination by:</p><p></p><p>1.) Multiplying XP requirements by 10x. E.g. 2nd level takes 3000 XP, not 300.</p><p></p><p>2.) Allowing gold to be spent for XP gain on a 1 gp = 1 XP basis. E.g. one PC currently is a Folk Hero and he gets 1 XP per gp he sends back home to his village to support the fight against tyranny; another is a pirate and he gets XP for spending gold on his love interest. I've also declared that at a certain point they will get other benefits, e.g. 50,000 gold is enough that the love interest begins to reciprocate with warm feelings towards the pirate.</p><p></p><p>3.) You get half XP for dealing with a monster temporarily (e.g. sneaking past a monster, persuading an army to disband) and the other half XP only when you deal with it permanently (e.g. killing a monster, annihilating an army and/or banishing it to another plane).</p><p></p><p>4.) You get reduced XP for dealing with low-CR threats, in a ratio of [monster CR shifted by 2 levels up]:[your level], capped at 100%. So for example, a CR 1/4 creature gives full XP to a 1st level character but only 1/2 XP to a 2nd level character and 1/3 to a 3rd level character. A CR 1 creature gives full XP to 1st-3rd level characters but only 3/4 XP to a 4th level character and half XP to a 6th level character. Etc.</p><p></p><p>The net effect that I want to encourage is that:</p><p></p><p>(i) PCs don't feel a strong need to kill everything they come across just because it's there.</p><p>(ii) PCs are driven to seek out strong foes to challenge and/or steal from, instead of fighting hordes of mooks who teach you relatively little.</p><p>(iii) PCs are rewarded for CAW thinking that lets them, for example, infiltrate enemy headquarters and impersonate/kidnap/kill the enemy leaders instead of fighting their way through the whole army, and still get about the same total amount of XP.</p><p>(iv) I can therefore use mooks to shape the plot/tempo/sense of urgency. If the "adventure" is supposed to be "rescue the princess from hobgoblins" and I want four or five notional encounters without a rest, I can have a battalion of 800 hobgoblins camped out in the area, acting realistically (e.g. not fully armed and armored 100% of the time), which mostly don't affect the main four or five encounters but would come into play if the players retreat into a Rope Trick or Leomund's Tiny Hut.</p><p></p><p>So far it seems to be working out pretty well and advancement has a lot of that good old AD&D feel. For example, one of my players was delighted that after two sessions with his 1st level character, he was still (barely) first level, whereas playing strictly by 5E rules he would probably be 4th level by now.</p><p></p><p>Anyway, that's a long tangent that may or may not be valuable to you, but it's currently working well for me.</p><p></p><p><strong>TLDR;</strong> your proposed tweak sounds fine from a game-balance perspective where monsters and PCs play by different rules, but from a immersive, simulationist perspective you might consider tweaking the XP system instead.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 6845793, member: 6787650"] From a game balance/challenge perspective, that works just fine. From a simulationist/in-world perspective, it's quite a bit more problematic to justify. When you've got a whole slew of 8th level Eldritch Knights sitting around, and an XP system which emphasizes positive feedback, you hit two big problems: (1) why didn't these guys continue on to 20th level? (2) why does anyone need the PCs? In 2nd edition this wasn't a problem, because "most NPCs are 1st-3rd level" is actually really easy to justify in a game where trying to go from 3rd to 8th level takes ages and is quite likely to get you killed by some save-or-die effect long before you hit 8th. In relatively tame 5E where adventuring is quick, easy, and profitable, it's quite a bit harder to justify. I think I've hit upon the right combination by: 1.) Multiplying XP requirements by 10x. E.g. 2nd level takes 3000 XP, not 300. 2.) Allowing gold to be spent for XP gain on a 1 gp = 1 XP basis. E.g. one PC currently is a Folk Hero and he gets 1 XP per gp he sends back home to his village to support the fight against tyranny; another is a pirate and he gets XP for spending gold on his love interest. I've also declared that at a certain point they will get other benefits, e.g. 50,000 gold is enough that the love interest begins to reciprocate with warm feelings towards the pirate. 3.) You get half XP for dealing with a monster temporarily (e.g. sneaking past a monster, persuading an army to disband) and the other half XP only when you deal with it permanently (e.g. killing a monster, annihilating an army and/or banishing it to another plane). 4.) You get reduced XP for dealing with low-CR threats, in a ratio of [monster CR shifted by 2 levels up]:[your level], capped at 100%. So for example, a CR 1/4 creature gives full XP to a 1st level character but only 1/2 XP to a 2nd level character and 1/3 to a 3rd level character. A CR 1 creature gives full XP to 1st-3rd level characters but only 3/4 XP to a 4th level character and half XP to a 6th level character. Etc. The net effect that I want to encourage is that: (i) PCs don't feel a strong need to kill everything they come across just because it's there. (ii) PCs are driven to seek out strong foes to challenge and/or steal from, instead of fighting hordes of mooks who teach you relatively little. (iii) PCs are rewarded for CAW thinking that lets them, for example, infiltrate enemy headquarters and impersonate/kidnap/kill the enemy leaders instead of fighting their way through the whole army, and still get about the same total amount of XP. (iv) I can therefore use mooks to shape the plot/tempo/sense of urgency. If the "adventure" is supposed to be "rescue the princess from hobgoblins" and I want four or five notional encounters without a rest, I can have a battalion of 800 hobgoblins camped out in the area, acting realistically (e.g. not fully armed and armored 100% of the time), which mostly don't affect the main four or five encounters but would come into play if the players retreat into a Rope Trick or Leomund's Tiny Hut. So far it seems to be working out pretty well and advancement has a lot of that good old AD&D feel. For example, one of my players was delighted that after two sessions with his 1st level character, he was still (barely) first level, whereas playing strictly by 5E rules he would probably be 4th level by now. Anyway, that's a long tangent that may or may not be valuable to you, but it's currently working well for me. [B]TLDR;[/B] your proposed tweak sounds fine from a game-balance perspective where monsters and PCs play by different rules, but from a immersive, simulationist perspective you might consider tweaking the XP system instead. [/QUOTE]
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