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<blockquote data-quote="The Serge" data-source="post: 485475" data-attributes="member: 4049">It sounds to me less like a CR problem and more of a realistic encounter.Think about it.&nbsp; Did the PCs expect to encounter a Demon?&nbsp; Demons, like Dragons, are very diverse and powerful beings for their CR.&nbsp; They are both physically and magically powerful; indeed, the only thing limiting them from Dragon status is the fact that they use a d8 instead of a d12 to determine hp (and they have more skill points than Dragons).&nbsp; As a result, I've always felt that the CR for a Demon, Devil, or any other extra-planar Outsider is based upon a prepared party.Your PCs ran into a place they did not anticipate finding a Demon, much less a Babau, which is extremely resistant to melee classes.&nbsp; They had no warning, and no reason to expect the confrontation and attack.&nbsp; Furthermore, they were taken by surprise.&nbsp; AND, if you're being honest and I'm reading this right, the DM (you) treated the Demon as an intelligent, extremely dangerous creature dedicated to spreading misery and murder with frightening efficiency.&nbsp; Darkness is one of the most underused, effective spells to cast at lower and mid (1-9) levels.&nbsp; It effectively requires that PCs either cast another, stronger spell to get rid of it, or requires that they think outside the box (and use the Listen skill), especially if they're not under attack.&nbsp; The tactics you apply to the Demon allowed it to do a lot of damage, and this in and of itself was further facilitated by the PCs' lousy rolls.&nbsp; If anything, I would have considered increasing the EL (I don't know how your room was designed), but that's about it.And, this is not a slap in the face of your players.&nbsp; The fact that they knew not only when to retreat but had the means to steal back in to save the Paladin is commendable (although how your Cleric cast a teleport is beyond me.&nbsp; Magic item?).I think the CR is accurate in the same manner CR is accurate for Dragons. Sounds like you had a lot of fun...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="The Serge, post: 485475, member: 4049"] It sounds to me less like a CR problem and more of a realistic encounter. Think about it. Did the PCs expect to encounter a Demon? Demons, like Dragons, are very diverse and powerful beings for their CR. They are both physically and magically powerful; indeed, the only thing limiting them from Dragon status is the fact that they use a d8 instead of a d12 to determine hp (and they have more skill points than Dragons). As a result, I've always felt that the CR for a Demon, Devil, or any other extra-planar Outsider is based upon a prepared party. Your PCs ran into a place they did not anticipate finding a Demon, much less a Babau, which is extremely resistant to melee classes. They had no warning, and no reason to expect the confrontation and attack. Furthermore, they were taken by surprise. AND, if you're being honest and I'm reading this right, the DM (you) treated the Demon as an intelligent, extremely dangerous creature dedicated to spreading misery and murder with frightening efficiency. [i]Darkness[/i] is one of the most underused, effective spells to cast at lower and mid (1-9) levels. It effectively requires that PCs either cast another, stronger spell to get rid of it, or requires that they think outside the box (and use the Listen skill), especially if they're not under attack. The tactics you apply to the Demon allowed it to do a lot of damage, and this in and of itself was further facilitated by the PCs' lousy rolls. If anything, I would have considered increasing the EL (I don't know how your room was designed), but that's about it. And, this is not a slap in the face of your players. The fact that they knew not only when to retreat but had the means to steal back in to save the Paladin is commendable (although how your Cleric cast a [i]teleport[/i] is beyond me. Magic item?). I think the CR is accurate in the same manner CR is accurate for Dragons. Sounds like you had a lot of fun... [/QUOTE]

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