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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 6837120" data-attributes="member: 22779">Now, I'll admit, this is probably a play style thing.  I'm pretty goal oriented, so, the idea that "the play's the thing" isn't my highest priority.  Yes, I enjoy playing, of course, but, playing for the sake of playing bores me to tears.  If there's a goal, let's advance to that goal and time spent that doesn't really advance in that direction is something I don't particularly enjoy.But, my point is this.  We're now Oh for five.  Five different scenarios, although similar, and every time the group has attempted to find means to "play smart" and advance through those scenarios without having to turn into murder hoboes and kill everything in our way.  And every single time, good idea or bad, we've failed.  We're 0 for 5.  It doesn't matter what we do, what questions we ask, what plans we come up with.  The scenarios are set up in such a way that it is impossible not to have them go pear shaped and turn into these mass combats.We sneak into the ancestral home of one of the PC's after discovering a secret entrance into the basement.  The map is set up in such a way that the first room we come into is filled with twenty guards, on alert who immediately attack.  We spend days trying to discover a way into another manor house, and, at 2 o'clock in the morning, there's about fifteen fully alert guards on patrol.  We sneak into a fortress only to discover, after we've snuck in, that the one person who could recognise us is in the next room AND there's been a second guy who's been scrying on us the whole time.  We come to a hunting lodge, spend time searching the outside, looking for tracks, looking in windows, trying to get the lay of the land, wait a couple of hours to see who comes in and out, and apparently miss the two trolls and giant lizards waiting just outside and still have zero idea of the numbers of defenders inside the manor house.  On and on.  It's extremely frustrating.  There's zero point to any planning.  It will always fail because we will never ask exactly the right questions to be able to make informed decisions and the scenarios are set up so that it's impossible to not trigger the entire scenario.  We'd have to succeed every skill check every time.  Good grief, in this last scenario, the final failed skill check was the THIRD one that was forced on us.  Of course we failed.  It was inevitable.  Even had we gotten inside the house, it's pretty much guaranteed that we'd fail one check and as soon as that happened, poof, free for all.So,  [MENTION=2067]I'm A Banana[/MENTION], this is why I'm so frustrated.  FIVE times in a row.  Regardless of what we try.  Nothing we attempt ever succeeds.  So, why bother?  Why waste the time at the table?  Load up on buffs, kick in the front door and get exactly the same results.If you want us to actually plan and "play smart" then that play has to be rewarded.  At least sometimes.  Maybe, instead of fifteen fully alert guards on constant patrol, maybe there's four or five, grouped together having a smoke in the corner which allows a reasonable chance of success.  Maybe the dudes that can recognise us aren't fifteen feet away from us as soon as we walk into the fortress.  Maybe, just once in a while, some proposed plan works instead of being instantly shut down - "Hey, this is a rich district, they need road construction right, or some brick work done?  Nope."There has to be some reward for smart play if you want the players to actually play smart.</blockquote>

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