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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raunalyn" data-source="post: 6839324" data-attributes="member: 72670">I'm going to try to avoid snark here...one of my pet peeves is someone omitting key bits of information (whether intentional or not) to shift the blame elsewhere. That's what it looks like here...you are looking to blame the DM. The DM (in this case, myself and @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=2067" target="_blank">I'm A Banana</a>) is now defending himself and trying to help you see things from his perspective. So let's do that here...let's discuss the scenarios in full. Let's also identify the key players, shall we?  Two different campaigns. Campaign 1 (mine) campaign 2 (Banana's)  Campaign 1: A paladin, a knight, a dragon sorcerer, a wild sorcerer, a ranger (murder hobo 1) and a fighter/thief (murder hobo 2)  Campaign 2: A druid, a wizard, a monk, a bard (me), a warlock (murder hobo 1) and a fighter (murder hobo 2)   This is campaign 1. What is being omitted here is that you were attempting to enter the district as road workers (your plan). The plan to enter the area was shut down for a few reasons. One; there wasn't any roadwork being done in the noble district at the time and two; I don't know about you, but road workers enter mansions all the time so that they can do roadwork...  Soon after this, the paladin came up with the plan to enter the noble district because, hey...he's a noble. What happened? You were successful. Before all of that, though...no one thought to disguise themselves, were roaming around the city, not bothering to hide their movements, not pulling their hoods up, not checking to see if anyone was following or watching...all while being in an enemy occupied city. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt here and say that there was a quite a bit of time between sessions.  When three of the party goes out to do some scouting, they spot a small patrol of enemies who harass them. The party (the dragon sorcerer, murder hobo 1 and murder hobo 2) proceeds to kill the patrol, take their stuff...and then leave their bodies in the middle of the street. That wouldn't bring any notice on you, would it?    See above.    Yes. You guys spent time observing one side of the house...the west side. You were able to see a patrol roaming the grounds, staying in that general area. You saw another patrol to the north. You didn't send the scout (murder hobo 1) to the south to see who was there, nor to the east portion of the house to see what was there, either. That's what a scout should do, yes?     See above. Not to sound snarky, but maybe the reason you didn't hear him was because you were talking right over him?    The only reason that you think that whole plan had zero chance of success is because you and your party set yourselves up for failure, not me.    Yes, and it's important that I help you understand where I am coming from.     This is campaign 1: What you fail to mention is the riot you guys caused in order to pull the enemy away from the mansion so that you could sneak into the mansion. This prevented those inside the mansion from calling in reinforcements. Not only that, but you let one of them escape the room and warn the rest of the mansion. Then, quite wisely, you blocked the door for a few rounds so that you could clear the enemy from the banquet hall and focus on those beating on the door. Lastly, you failed to mention that this was a boss fight    This is campaign 2: The party got split up. The cleric (me at the time) and murder hobo 1 were in one group, and the rest of the party in another (though the monk was stuck in the kitchens). We could have waited, observing, until we were able to join back together. But, the cleric was not going to let the bullywugs bully the party's lizardmen allies, so when we went out on patrol, we got rid of the bullywugs, ran back to the castle and convinced a group of them that there were enemies out in the swamp (while being egged on by murder hobo 1). Rinse, repeat. We did this several times (and Banana let it happen because it was funny) and cleared out almost one entire section of the castle before the alarm went up. Conclusion: Party, not DM    Campaign 2: Both murder hobos split off from the party and opened a chest without the rest of the party being in the room, thus triggering the encounter. Conclusion: Party, not DM    One group goes upstairs to talk to the cloud giant. Second group (the monk and murder hobo 1) stays downstairs and starts trouble. Conclusion: Party, not DM    Addressed above.   Yes...maybe it's your party, not your DM?</blockquote>

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