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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6686088" data-attributes="member: 996">Not that they every have in D&D before, but, yeah, I agree, that'd be ideal... Maybe.  Depends on how the skill challenge has been laid out and just how epic is epic in that epic campaign, but, sure, it's a possibility.  30 STR Demigod, you can kinda see that.  14 STR Epic Trickster, even if he rolled the same result on an Athletics check, probably visualize it differently. SC mechanics are checks and successes.  There's no hard number how far you jump, your use of Athletics is either a success, or not. That's a lot more abstract.  I'm basically with you, though, except for one thing.  The issue is the skill check, the mechanics for jumping under Athletics, /not/ the combat system.  Jumping can be done in or out of combat, and the same mechanics apply.  The high jump isn't even scaled in squares like the longjump, is, so there's not even that tenuous connection to combat.  Nod. That's not hard to rationalize, though.  In the SC, the fighter is pulling a stunt when combat is at most a threat, he's free to pull something that might be impractical in the middle of an actual fight vs meaningful opposition.  I think your reading a little more into the abstraction of n successes before 3 failures of the SC than strictly needs to be there.  While that abstraction leaves you free to visualize a success however you want, including something the character making the success couldn't do in some other circumstance, that freedom doesn't create a contradiction, you do when you choose to imagine the success as something the character can't do, according to less abstract mechanics.  Personally, I find the deterministic rules used in a few skills out of place in 4e.  But I can't see extending that issue to the combat system - indeed, I tend to find them at odds with that, as well as with SCs.</blockquote>

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