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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6757387" data-attributes="member: 6677017">I pretty much like all of the fighters. When I did a break down of Champion vs. Battle Master a while I go, I was initially concerned that Champion was weak. After lots of math and taking various things into account, I discovered that Champion is only marginally weaker than Battle Master on average--and that's assuming not even using feats (which can help a Champion more than a Battle Master). It's not worth stressing about unless you are in a power-gaming campaign. Fighter in general is a very effective class. After my analysis, I no longer felt concerned about the character concept I have for a straight up Basic Rules human (non-variant), no-feats Champion Fighter.As far as the thematic nature of the Battle Master subclass, I think it is usually represented wrong. People a lot of times think "warlord" because the name sounds like a version of that, and because it has a few maneuvers that are warlordy. But really, it is designed as much or more for other concepts than for a battlefield leader type.Tactical Leader ("warlord")There are 4 maneuvers that are clearly in this category: Commander's Strike, Distracting Strike, Maneuvering Attack, and Rally.That's pretty much it. Out of 16 maneuvers, 4 of them speak to this concept.Duelist/SwashbucklerThere are 9 maneuvers that speak clearly towards this concept: Disarming Attack, Evasive Footwork, Feinting Attack, Goading Attack, Lunging Attack, Parry, Pushing Attack, Riposte, Trip Attack.This class has twice as many targeted options for a swashbuckling duelist as it has for a tactical leader.GladiatorThere are 7 maneuvers that are just asking you to gladiator up: Disarming Attack, Feinting Attack, Goading Attack, Lunging Attack, Menacing Attack, Pushing Attack, Trip Attack.SamuraiThe Student of War and Know Your Enemy class features just scream Samurai.It only has 2 maneuvers (Menacing Attack, Precision Attack) that seem to directly evoke a samurai feel, but that's because there aren't really a lot of specific combat maneuvers one associates specifically with a samurai.But the non-maneuver features really do just scream Samurai to me.So of just these four obvious fighter concepts, a duelist/swashbuckler and a gladiator both have about twice the maneuver support of a tactician warlord, and Samurai seems about equal.So the over-emphasized (by fans I would say--WotC hasn't really pushed it very hard) warlord-ish concept of a Battle Master is tied for 3rd place out of the top four contenders that immediately come to mind.I suppose there is a lesson here about not judging a class by the impressions others (including myself) have given you about what it is about or what it does. Look at it yourself and see if you like what it does. I know that my Battle Master character, for instance, is quite envious of the initiative bonus that Remarkable Athlete is gives the party's Champion.</blockquote>

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