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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost" data-source="post: 1702648" data-attributes="member: 4720">You know, I should feel bad about the gross hijack, but I don't.   <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":o" title="Eek!    :o"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":o" /> But in any case, this isn't about the merits in an objective sense.  I never read enough of the thing to develop a good sense of its literary merit outside of my complete inability to empathize with the protagonist in any way, shape, or form.  It's about the ability to dislike something that someone else likes without being told you're wrong and/or missing the point. Yup.  I'd give you my reasons, but ultimately, there is no more subjective question in the world.  But I think we can proceed without concensus on that one, because it really is besides the point.Yup, Nope, and Yup.  In that order.  Some of the Corleones were indeed, mere thugs.  Others (Vito, Michael) had a strong sense of morality and a code of behavior.  It differed from that of the society around them, but they did have one.  And they tried to do what was right for their family/their people, even if it involved murder, etc.  It doesn't make them right, or just, but it does make them something other than mere thugs.  But again, beside the point.  I guess I'm just feeling argumentative today.Wait for it...Bingo.  The mark of an adolescent, and a generally petty, ignoble human being.  Everyone has responsibilities thrust upon them.  Very often they are responsibilities they didn't want, and sometimes the inheritance of said responsibility is grossly unfair.  That's life.  A hero goes above and beyond their mere responsibilities.  A decent human being at least tries to fulfill them without making everyone around them miserable and commiting vile crimes.I've read about hundreds of protagonists thrust into roles they didn't want.  Just to pull out one rather famous example: Frodo.  He wasn't exactly tickled pink about what he had to do.No.  Not at all.  I would probably curl up into the fetal position and cry like a kid with a soiled diaper.  Right after I soiled myself.  To use my previous and more appropriate example, Frodo was distinctly un-cheerful.  But he soldiered on.  Just in case there's someone living under a rock for the last few decades: [spoiler]He even personally failed at the very end, though he most certainly didn't kick any puppies or rape Sam along the way.  He may have despaired of his task many times, but he didn't use that as an excuse to become as vile as anything he fought [/spoiler]So, if I'm ever going to sell my autobiography to fans of the Covenant books, I'd better start kicking orphans because of how unfair it is that I inherited a big fat chunk of debt.  And I'd better start beating my fiancee to rail against the responsibilities I've had dropped on me at the lab since two grad students unexpectedly quit.  And I really need to work on vocalizing my self-pity.  I don't particularly like my burdens, either, and I wish they would go away (if nothing else, it would leave me a lot more time to game), but I deal with them.  I don't feel any need to read about someone who can't even live up to my meagre level (within the context of our respective worlds and responsibilities, fantasy is, after all, life writ large).You keep saying that we miss the point.  No.  We got the point.  He never wanted his responsibilities.  Been done.  Most heroes don't want their responsibilities.  Heck, not even Superman wants his responsibilities.  But he goes above and beyond them.  Normal people at least meet them.  Tom Covenant is the fantasy equivalent of a guy who sits at home watching TV all day and beats his wife when she has to stay late at work because it means his dinner is late.  Assuming Covenant does save the world at the end, perhaps my little metaphor does run into the burning trailer to save his beer and grabs one of his kids while he's at it, but he probably beats his wife when she gets home for leaving the coffee pot on when she left that morning.Sorry.  No appeal here.  It may be a perfectly acceptable piece of fiction.  It may even be as wonderful as you're suggesting.  But I can't stomach that behavior in real life (and I've seen my share, and probably yours too), so I feel no need to subject myself to it in my leisure time.</blockquote>

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