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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tessarael" data-source="post: 9818762" data-attributes="member: 12909">I don't think it should scale like that. The problem is the large damage rider is too good with certain builds. I would suggest that it should scale something like below, based on previous experience in a campaign where we did have easy access to +d6 elemental damage as an alternative to +1 weapons:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Uncommon:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 attack and damage, OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+d6 elemental damage - acid, cold, fire, or lightning</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rare:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2 attack and damage, OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2 attack and +d6 elemental damage - acid, cold, fire, or lightning OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2d6 elemental damage - acid, cold, fire, or lightning - e.g., Flame Tongue and Frost Brand swords, requires attunement</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Very rare:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+3 attack and damage OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+3 attack and +d6 damage of the weapon's damage type OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 attack and +2d6 elemental damage - acid, cold, fire, or lightning OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+2d6 damage of the weapon's damage type - e.g., Vicious Weapon, requires attunement</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Legendary - all of which should require attunement:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+3 attack and damage and +d6 damage of the weapon's damage type, e.g., Moonblade, OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+3 attack and +2d6 elemental damage - acid, cold, fire, or lightning OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">+1 attack and +2d6 damage of the weapon's damage type</li> </ul></li> </ul>In particular, I think that <a href="https://5e.tools/items.html#vicious%20weapon_xdmg" target="_blank">Vicious </a>is undervalued as a rare weapon property in the 2024 DMG. It should have been very rare and/or required attunement. It is pretty strange to me that they didn't require attunement, given how powerful it is, and given the precedent of <a href="https://5e.tools/items.html#flame%20tongue_xdmg" target="_blank">Flame Tongue</a> being very rare and doing +2d6 fire damage with attunement required. Vicious is clearly a much more powerful weapon property than Flame Tongue.The classic <a href="https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Vicious" target="_blank">3E D&D</a> and <a href="https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/vicious/" target="_blank">Pathfinder</a> Vicious property did +2d6 weapon damage to the target and d6 damage to the wielder. That d6 damage to the wielder has been dropped in translation to 5E, though the balance was still potentially bad anyway for a build like Barbarian where they can resist that damage. And in both 3E D&D and Pathfinder, Vicious could only be applied to melee weapons. So by allowing it to also apply to ranged weapons, they've made it particularly powerful in D&D 2024.</blockquote>

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