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<blockquote data-quote="bert1001 fka bert1000" data-source="post: 9230154" data-attributes="member: 7029588">Yeah, I agree with your posts in general.&nbsp;&nbsp; Also 4e could have been better explained.&nbsp;&nbsp; And honestly, I'm not even sure the designers knew what they were making as a whole at launch either.But at this point who cares, right?There is at least one paradigm of interpreting the rules that makes everything hold together and make sense, and others that turn it into nonsense.Knowing what we know now, why would anyone approach 4e within a paradigm that turns it into nonsense?I can see arguments that people don't like that paradigm and it's too much of a cognitive departure for them to enjoy, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp; So that is why they don't play 4e.&nbsp;&nbsp; But all this continuing on and on that 4e falls apart if you interpret HP as only meat points, or minions have 1 HP relative to the world instead of relative to PCs of X level, or DCs scale with level while the in universe object remains the same, etc etc.I mean, just don't do it.&nbsp;&nbsp; If people can't approach 4e within a paradigm that is known to work, walk away.&nbsp;&nbsp; I can respect that.&nbsp;&nbsp; What I don't understand is people insisting on approaching 4e from assumptions that cause it to turn into nonsense, and then saying, &quot;See, I told you so!&quot;.4e is trying to emulate the heroic fantasy genre, and the rules are there to support the in game fiction around this.Yes, Hit Points should have been relabeled Heroic Stamina or some such.&nbsp;&nbsp; Much like they always have, hit points represent how close you are to being &quot;taken out&quot; of the scene.&nbsp;&nbsp; No more, no less.What genre would be emulated if the 100 hit points represented a hero's flesh being melted off, and they just &quot;pushed though&quot; this?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="bert1001 fka bert1000, post: 9230154, member: 7029588"] Yeah, I agree with your posts in general. Also 4e could have been better explained. And honestly, I'm not even sure the designers knew what they were making as a whole at launch either. But at this point who cares, right? There is at least one paradigm of interpreting the rules that makes everything hold together and make sense, and others that turn it into nonsense. Knowing what we know now, why would anyone approach 4e within a paradigm that turns it into nonsense? I can see arguments that people don't like that paradigm and it's too much of a cognitive departure for them to enjoy, etc. So that is why they don't play 4e. But all this continuing on and on that 4e falls apart if you interpret HP as only meat points, or minions have 1 HP relative to the world instead of relative to PCs of X level, or DCs scale with level while the in universe object remains the same, etc etc. I mean, just don't do it. If people can't approach 4e within a paradigm that is known to work, walk away. I can respect that. What I don't understand is people insisting on approaching 4e from assumptions that cause it to turn into nonsense, and then saying, "See, I told you so!". 4e is trying to emulate the heroic fantasy genre, and the rules are there to support the in game fiction around this. Yes, Hit Points should have been relabeled Heroic Stamina or some such. Much like they always have, hit points represent how close you are to being "taken out" of the scene. No more, no less. What genre would be emulated if the 100 hit points represented a hero's flesh being melted off, and they just "pushed though" this? [/QUOTE]

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