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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9234781" data-attributes="member: 87792">I disagree. I can think of a lot of paradigms I find more fun than D&amp;D hit points, but all are aimed at specific types of game. The only thing I find good about hit points is that you can push them to the back of your mind and not think about them.And I've pushed for two things regarding immersion:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">That it's not a property of the game so much as it is a property of the specific relationship between the player and the game</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">And that it's multi-dimensional and different things matter to different people at different times.</li>
</ul>For example I find a 3.X fighter to be incredibly un-immersive. I'm thinking about walking up to someone and attacking them with only one type of attack that I've built up and am going to spam. This is not at all the way I think when armed with a sword and in a skirmish (former re-enactor here); AD&amp;D can get away with this by basically fast forwarding, but 3.X can't. Instead hitting someone with a sword is the least of the things I'm thinking about. Instead positioning and movement (both in respect to people and terrain), trying to outflank, pacing, not becoming predictable (unless I'm trying for a trap), and more are all on my list. 4e AEDU martial powers aren't exactly what I think of but contain reasonable elements of these things and so are far far closer than 3.X Whirlwind Trip (or even just spam attack) nonsense. 3.X gets one line, while 4e lands in the vicinity of a multi-dimensional thing.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9234781, member: 87792"] I disagree. I can think of a [I]lot[/I] of paradigms I find more fun than D&D hit points, but all are aimed at specific types of game. The [I]only[/I] thing I find good about hit points is that you can push them to the back of your mind and not think about them. And I've pushed for two things regarding immersion: [LIST] [*]That it's not a property of the game so much as it is a property of the specific relationship between the player and the game [*]And that it's multi-dimensional and different things matter to different people at different times. [/LIST] For example I find a 3.X fighter to be [I]incredibly[/I] un-immersive. I'm thinking about walking up to someone and attacking them with only one type of attack that I've built up and am going to spam. This is not at all the way I think when armed with a sword and in a skirmish (former re-enactor here); AD&D can get away with this by basically fast forwarding, but 3.X can't. Instead hitting someone with a sword is the least of the things I'm thinking about. Instead positioning and movement (both in respect to people and terrain), trying to outflank, pacing, not becoming predictable (unless I'm trying for a trap), and more are all on my list. 4e AEDU martial powers aren't [I]exactly[/I] what I think of but contain reasonable elements of these things and so are far far closer than 3.X Whirlwind Trip (or even just spam attack) nonsense. 3.X gets one line, while 4e lands in the vicinity of a multi-dimensional thing. [/QUOTE]

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