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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9271240" data-attributes="member: 6877472">But is the magic part of a cogent system?&nbsp; See if you think about it, the vast majority of magical things you see in a game fall mostly fall into &quot;stuff players can't access&quot;.&nbsp; If Keraptis has built a giant aquarium using permanent Walls of Force or the aforementioned floating river with a permanent Reverse Gravity, or has bound a small army of Efreeti to ensure no player uses shenanigans to bypass his clever funhouse, and the players ask &quot;hey, how did he do this?&quot;, the answer isn't &quot;Feat A + Subclass B + Spell C&quot; it's FIAT. Now you might say players have no need for such abilities, and it might be unbalanced if they had them, but a cogent magic system would have answers beyond &quot;well uh, Wish and lucky die rolls&quot; or &quot;a God/Artifact&quot; did it.Or hey, when you see a Human Noble shout commands at his bodyguards to give them all free attacks (with a refresh on a d6 roll), a player might say &quot;huh, how does one get to be such an amazing leader?&quot;.&nbsp; Well the answer is, you don't.&nbsp; Again, it's fiat.Enemy has a cool flying castle?&nbsp; Don't ask how, you're probably not getting one.&nbsp; Unless the DM wants you to, of course.&nbsp; Because there's probably not any rules for it in the first place (and if they are, it's probably rules for me and not for thee, lol).You want to talk about a cognitive gap, this is a huge one, and it's existed from the very beginning of the game.&nbsp; But it's accepted because that's just how things are.&nbsp; NPC's have unique powers that players can't have, there's stuff in the world that has no explanation- how is that island floating in mid air?&nbsp; Uh...a rift to the Elemental Plane of Air.&nbsp; How was it formed?&nbsp; Magical cataclysm or something?Now I'm not saying I want players to be able to access this stuff- I mean, you got to think about game balance, which is why NPC Drow have always had a host of special powers and bespoke gear that PC Drow can't have (and even if you capture it, oh sorry, it's reliant on Underdark radiation that never seems to bother the Drow you fight, but means the gear melts if sunlight hits it, lol).&nbsp; Or even why suddenly PC Kobolds no longer have Pack Tactics, but all the ones you fight still do.But the fact that there's no explanations for any of it keeps the world from making any sense.&nbsp; You just have to shrug and say &quot;man, I have no idea how the Curse of Annihilation works- that Acererak, wot a funny guy!&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9271240, member: 6877472"] But is the magic part of a cogent system? See if you think about it, the vast majority of magical things you see in a game fall mostly fall into "stuff players can't access". If Keraptis has built a giant aquarium using permanent Walls of Force or the aforementioned floating river with a permanent Reverse Gravity, or has bound a small army of Efreeti to ensure no player uses shenanigans to bypass his clever funhouse, and the players ask "hey, how did he do this?", the answer isn't "Feat A + Subclass B + Spell C" it's FIAT. Now you might say players have no need for such abilities, and it might be unbalanced if they had them, but a cogent magic system would have answers beyond "well uh, Wish and lucky die rolls" or "a God/Artifact" did it. Or hey, when you see a Human Noble shout commands at his bodyguards to give them all free attacks (with a refresh on a d6 roll), a player might say "huh, how does one get to be such an amazing leader?". Well the answer is, you don't. Again, it's fiat. Enemy has a cool flying castle? Don't ask how, you're probably not getting one. Unless the DM wants you to, of course. Because there's probably not any rules for it in the first place (and if they are, it's probably rules for me and not for thee, lol). You want to talk about a cognitive gap, this is a huge one, and it's existed from the very beginning of the game. But it's accepted because that's just how things are. NPC's have unique powers that players can't have, there's stuff in the world that has no explanation- how is that island floating in mid air? Uh...a rift to the Elemental Plane of Air. How was it formed? Magical cataclysm or something? Now I'm not saying I want players to be able to access this stuff- I mean, you got to think about game balance, which is why NPC Drow have always had a host of special powers and bespoke gear that PC Drow can't have (and even if you capture it, oh sorry, it's reliant on Underdark radiation that never seems to bother the Drow you fight, but means the gear melts if sunlight hits it, lol). Or even why suddenly PC Kobolds no longer have Pack Tactics, but all the ones you fight still do. But the fact that there's no explanations for any of it keeps the world from making any sense. You just have to shrug and say "man, I have no idea how the Curse of Annihilation works- that Acererak, wot a funny guy!" [/QUOTE]

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