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<blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 9274502" data-attributes="member: 58416">For me, most of the disconnect for 4E didn't come from HP.It came from realizing that most of the &quot;official&quot; advice was bad advice. For example, trying to engage in a Disarm the Trap Skill Challenge during a fight (what is suggested) does not particularly work well, especially once you realize that your PC can smash/break/kill most things without much effort. There were also instances such as realizing that staying in the mouth of a gator during a fight was better than trying to get out. Escaping the grab meant taking most of your turn, doing zero damage, and also recharging a more-powerful attack for the enemy; staying in the mouth meant a smaller amount of damage each round and preventing other party members from being hit.Lorewise, there was some disconnect between the fluff and crunch. However, HP isn't what bothered me. It was more that a lot of threats (such as dragons and demon lords) said to be terrorizing the land ended up so laughably pathetic against the PCs in actual play. It was difficult to buy into lore that told such a drastically different story than actually paying the game told. I remember fighting Strahd in 4E; I don't think he ever got a chance to attack before the party killed him. When he tried to turn incorporeal and flee, it got worse for him because it meant that the wizard did more damage to him. Additionally, &quot;Ze game will remain ze same&quot; did no favors to 4E. The style, tone, and aesthetic of the game didn't remain the same. There were a lot of things to like about 4E. However, my best experiences came after realizing that I should run the game in a way that largely ignored how WoTC advised that I should run the game. It took a while to wrap my head around that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Argyle King, post: 9274502, member: 58416"] For me, most of the disconnect for 4E didn't come from HP. It came from realizing that most of the "official" advice was bad advice. For example, trying to engage in a Disarm the Trap Skill Challenge during a fight (what is suggested) does not particularly work well, especially once you realize that your PC can smash/break/kill most things without much effort. There were also instances such as realizing that staying in the mouth of a gator during a fight was better than trying to get out. Escaping the grab meant taking most of your turn, doing zero damage, and also recharging a more-powerful attack for the enemy; staying in the mouth meant a smaller amount of damage each round and preventing other party members from being hit. Lorewise, there was some disconnect between the fluff and crunch. However, HP isn't what bothered me. It was more that a lot of threats (such as dragons and demon lords) said to be terrorizing the land ended up so laughably pathetic against the PCs in actual play. It was difficult to buy into lore that told such a drastically different story than actually paying the game told. I remember fighting Strahd in 4E; I don't think he ever got a chance to attack before the party killed him. When he tried to turn incorporeal and flee, it got worse for him because it meant that the wizard did more damage to him. Additionally, "Ze game will remain ze same" did no favors to 4E. The style, tone, and aesthetic of the game didn't remain the same. There were a lot of things to like about 4E. However, my best experiences came after realizing that I should run the game in a way that largely ignored how WoTC advised that I should run the game. It took a while to wrap my head around that. [/QUOTE]

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