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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6866572" data-attributes="member: 16814">I think the mistake here is that this trap is just boring and so doesn't meet the needs as outlined in the OP.  That your solution is to arbitrarily increase DCs to counter the agency of players in what mechanical choices they've made to somehow balance against the agency of declared actions, which you obviously value more, again fails to achieve the needs as outlined at the top of the OP.  You're introducing gamist meta-mechanics to offset the bad design of the trap vs  character skill suites.  That's not a suitable solution.  Also, your trap design is really just a pixel hunt.Skills like perception give you sensory clues, not deductive answers.  It's fine for you to determine that passive perception is incapable of determining where the floor is rotten enough to collapse, but it should just be an impossibility -- no need to hide it behind an arbitrarily high DC (especially not a randomly rolled one).  The effect is the same, but the route is more honest.  However, it shouldn't be difficult to determine that there's a rotting smell, nor that the smell is similar to wood rot (almost everyone has smelled rotting wood).  But the smell of wood rot is just a clue, and doesn't answer the trap.  Effort on the player's part to actively investigate to determine where the wood is rotten is next, and that doesn't yield to a simple roll -- they have to ask for the check.  At which time you should grant it, with reasonable difficulty (just slightly rotten, but enough to collapse under weight due to shoddy construction would be a hard DC, crumbles to the touch would be an easy one).  Then your players have their agency rewarded for both their mechanical choices and their in game choices.  And the trap is something they have to work around.  But it's still a bit boring.I would fix your trap in a number of ways.  Firstly, I would telegraph it by having a section of the floor already having collapsed - a previous visitor stepped in the wrong place.  This adds immediate tension.  Secondly, I'd place it in a location that requires the players to operate under time pressure -- an enemy is fleeing and they're pursuing and/or they're being chased, or some other plot reason.  Or, alternatively, I'd have the trap area as part of an encounter with hostiles -- preferably ones that aren't vulnerable to the trap such as fliers or climbers or light enough to not cause the floor to fall.  Either way, I'd make the determination of the rotten areas easier (but not automatic) because the trap at that point isn't a gotcha but an obstacle that enhances the area.  Finally, I'd likely reduce the effects of a failure to an easy encounter at the bottom or a forced change of location (slide, new level, etc.)  This enhances play because it causes the party to have to make the choice between risking a rescue or voluntarily entering the new area to stay together.  It makes the dungeon/encounter area more dynamic.  This is the only thing I liked about your trap design above -- it's failure mode did add a dynamic new area and a new traversal method.However, the thing that most interested me about your description was the upside-down pail with the rock on it.  My characters are all very interested in what's under the pail.</blockquote>

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