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<blockquote data-quote="Xakk" data-source="post: 5777104" data-attributes="member: 88355">I think the general point here is that combat and noncombat need to mesh more. 4e was supposed to be 'newbie friendly' but someone seemed to feel that meant cutting out mechanics for much that wasn't killing things and taking their stuff. D&amp;d is not a videogame. We can open every door and expect a room. We can walk forever and not fall off the world or hit invisible walls (well not that kind of invisible wall). We can hold conversations with enemies that change their minds every time. We can tear down buildings and have NPCs build new ones. Or arm then and lead them against the king. We can be quest givers or villians. In both 3 and 4, most of the time when you tried to do something not covered by the rules the DM made a spot call to bring things back to mechanics and that was good. But if you wanted to do it a lot then that call had to become a houserule which was not so good.In 3rd you got class abilities and feats to let you do things you couldn't before, or in interesting new ways. In 4th they were really focused more on the power economy so class abilities and feats were mostly focused around improving your quantative values, which had become a lot more rationed. I prefer 3rd editions style much better. Give me mechanics for impersonating a superior officer over +10 to hit any day. Or at least for overrunning with a carriage that isn't /per day.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Xakk, post: 5777104, member: 88355"] I think the general point here is that combat and noncombat need to mesh more. 4e was supposed to be 'newbie friendly' but someone seemed to feel that meant cutting out mechanics for much that wasn't killing things and taking their stuff. D&d is not a videogame. We can open every door and expect a room. We can walk forever and not fall off the world or hit invisible walls (well not that kind of invisible wall). We can hold conversations with enemies that change their minds every time. We can tear down buildings and have NPCs build new ones. Or arm then and lead them against the king. We can be quest givers or villians. In both 3 and 4, most of the time when you tried to do something not covered by the rules the DM made a spot call to bring things back to mechanics and that was good. But if you wanted to do it a lot then that call had to become a houserule which was not so good. In 3rd you got class abilities and feats to let you do things you couldn't before, or in interesting new ways. In 4th they were really focused more on the power economy so class abilities and feats were mostly focused around improving your quantative values, which had become a lot more rationed. I prefer 3rd editions style much better. Give me mechanics for impersonating a superior officer over +10 to hit any day. Or at least for overrunning with a carriage that isn't /per day. [/QUOTE]

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