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<blockquote data-quote="Crazy Jerome" data-source="post: 5777771" data-attributes="member: 54877">Keep in mind what I said about everyone has different expectations here.&nbsp; Having fenced for some time, and being more concerned in my &quot;simulation&quot; desires that the results be plausible, rather than directly explained 1:1 by the method used, 4E is a better simulation of what I want than previous versions.&nbsp; It really is.&nbsp; Roughly, the thing I want is results occuring naturally as they would happen in the typical Fafhrd and Gray Mouser story.&nbsp; So all kinds of crazy stuff that that duo does no more than once a fight, heck yeah!&nbsp; And even from a real-world perspective, I know full well from experience that certain moves are practiced hard in case you might get the opportunity to use them.&nbsp; Sometimes you don't.&nbsp;Granted, my perception of this happens to work particularly well with 4E in part because I don't push every combat to the max.&nbsp; Which means &quot;daily&quot; powers aren't used daily.&nbsp; They are used no more than once per day.&nbsp; And encounter powers aren't used exactly once every encounter.&nbsp; They are used no more than once per encounter.&nbsp; It's a subtle but critical distinction, and of course some people don't play 4E in a way that would let it emerge.&nbsp; And just so you know, the original magic item activation limits chafed me something fierce, to the point that I house ruled them out.&nbsp; I only recently learned that Essentials made that official. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />&nbsp; &nbsp;And finally, a lot of the outside angst over 4E &quot;unreality&quot; is missing a key point:&nbsp; The whole set of powers is a bit unreal.&nbsp; But characters have a tiny, sometimes esoteric subset of them.&nbsp; I've got nine players, and it's still tiny.&nbsp; It isn't uncommon for the players of martial characters to pick powers that are somewhat alike.&nbsp; So it may be that the fighter has 2 encounters and a daily that are on a rigorous schedule, but if one of the encounter and the daily are very similar in effect, the &quot;thing&quot; that the character does in the game happens more fluidly.&nbsp; On top of the previous &quot;not more than once&quot; dstinction, it really adds up.&nbsp;&nbsp;4E marking.&nbsp; My amusement on this point given my experience is how vilified that mechanic is on gamist and/or even &quot;video game&quot; grounds.&nbsp; It is probably one of the most simulation focused mechanics in 4E, though this is obscured by the fact that it also has a strong gamist purpose.&nbsp;In my very first playtest of 4E, one of our players, a lady who is a not mechanically inclined in games, mainly a social gamer, and only really gets fired up about roleplaying in the simulated world--got the fighter in the random pregen draw.&nbsp; I thought, &quot;oops, with the added complexity here, she will struggle.&quot;&nbsp; So in the first fight, I gave a brief discussion of how the 4E pieces fit together.&nbsp; She said, &quot;You mean I get up in their faces and they have to pay attention to me when I do?&nbsp; Alright!&quot;&nbsp; And off she went, playing her 4E fighter tactically perfect with nothing but her conception of the character in mind.&nbsp; We had to remind her how to use the d20 and add her mods, but her character choices were the same ones a veteran would have used.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;What people want simulated and why is often surprising. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Crazy Jerome, post: 5777771, member: 54877"] Keep in mind what I said about everyone has different expectations here. Having fenced for some time, and being more concerned in my "simulation" desires that the results be plausible, rather than directly explained 1:1 by the method used, 4E is a better simulation of what I want than previous versions. It really is. Roughly, the thing I want is results occuring naturally as they would happen in the typical Fafhrd and Gray Mouser story. So all kinds of crazy stuff that that duo does no more than once a fight, heck yeah! And even from a real-world perspective, I know full well from experience that certain moves are practiced hard in case you might get the opportunity to use them. Sometimes you don't. Granted, my perception of this happens to work particularly well with 4E in part because I don't push every combat to the max. Which means "daily" powers aren't used daily. They are used no more than once per day. And encounter powers aren't used exactly once every encounter. They are used no more than once per encounter. It's a subtle but critical distinction, and of course some people don't play 4E in a way that would let it emerge. And just so you know, the original magic item activation limits chafed me something fierce, to the point that I house ruled them out. I only recently learned that Essentials made that official. :D And finally, a lot of the outside angst over 4E "unreality" is missing a key point: The whole set of powers is a bit unreal. But characters have a tiny, sometimes esoteric subset of them. I've got nine players, and it's still tiny. It isn't uncommon for the players of martial characters to pick powers that are somewhat alike. So it may be that the fighter has 2 encounters and a daily that are on a rigorous schedule, but if one of the encounter and the daily are very similar in effect, the "thing" that the character does in the game happens more fluidly. On top of the previous "not more than once" dstinction, it really adds up. 4E marking. My amusement on this point given my experience is how vilified that mechanic is on gamist and/or even "video game" grounds. It is probably one of the most simulation focused mechanics in 4E, though this is obscured by the fact that it also has a strong gamist purpose. In my very first playtest of 4E, one of our players, a lady who is a not mechanically inclined in games, mainly a social gamer, and only really gets fired up about roleplaying in the simulated world--got the fighter in the random pregen draw. I thought, "oops, with the added complexity here, she will struggle." So in the first fight, I gave a brief discussion of how the 4E pieces fit together. She said, "You mean I get up in their faces and they have to pay attention to me when I do? Alright!" And off she went, playing her 4E fighter tactically perfect with nothing but her conception of the character in mind. We had to remind her how to use the d20 and add her mods, but her character choices were the same ones a veteran would have used. What people want simulated and why is often surprising. :) [/QUOTE]

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