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*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Bring Back Verisimilitude, add in More Excitement!
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<blockquote data-quote="nnms" data-source="post: 5780156" data-attributes="member: 83293"><p>I think the main problem is that people don't have much in the way of real familiarity with what simulation actually is. They associate the idea with rules heavy complex approaches that try to make everything as realistic as possible. So when someone talks about verisimilitude, it ends up conjuring all these ideas about realism at any cost and fun or enjoyment being intentionally tossed out as a priority.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It has far too much baggage from previous online message board fighting.</p><p></p><p>I think I avoided using the term, even if I described something that might be covered by it.</p><p></p><p>I am specifically talking about the actual procedures at the table where you hit a "what happens?" moment, resolve it with the system and immediately narrate the results back into the shared story to answer the question, which then creates a new described element which people react with in a constant cycle.</p><p></p><p>A mechanic that doesn't do that is not inherently bad or wrong. But it does provide a different play experience. And it can cause people who are looking more for an approach where the mechanics constantly refer back to the fiction to have a WTF?! moment.</p><p></p><p>And making it work for everyone by forcing narration is problematic. I'm probably not the only one who either heard someone describing their 4E power use in narrative terms and thought "ugh, just get on with the game" or who described it myself and had someone else think (or say) "ugh, just get on with the game."</p><p></p><p>When people say "That doesn't make sense," they have a valid complaint. And when people explain, "It could make sense, if you think about it in this particular way," or "It doesn't have to, just ignore it and enjoy the game," they're not actually addressing the problem. The problem is that the game mechanics are not producing results that the person finds pleasing and they need to look elsewhere for different mechanics that they will find pleasing.</p><p></p><p>I think we're going to see more and more people who want a more traditional approach to system resolution as more and more people who left D&D with 4E come and check out what's up with the new edition. And some of these people feel that WotC fired them as a customer. When you've got a negative experience like that and you talk about the way 4E is different than most previously published versions of D&D, it's easy to take a vague idea of "verisimilitude" and make it a point of contention.</p><p></p><p>Fun times ahead.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nnms, post: 5780156, member: 83293"] I think the main problem is that people don't have much in the way of real familiarity with what simulation actually is. They associate the idea with rules heavy complex approaches that try to make everything as realistic as possible. So when someone talks about verisimilitude, it ends up conjuring all these ideas about realism at any cost and fun or enjoyment being intentionally tossed out as a priority. It has far too much baggage from previous online message board fighting. I think I avoided using the term, even if I described something that might be covered by it. I am specifically talking about the actual procedures at the table where you hit a "what happens?" moment, resolve it with the system and immediately narrate the results back into the shared story to answer the question, which then creates a new described element which people react with in a constant cycle. A mechanic that doesn't do that is not inherently bad or wrong. But it does provide a different play experience. And it can cause people who are looking more for an approach where the mechanics constantly refer back to the fiction to have a WTF?! moment. And making it work for everyone by forcing narration is problematic. I'm probably not the only one who either heard someone describing their 4E power use in narrative terms and thought "ugh, just get on with the game" or who described it myself and had someone else think (or say) "ugh, just get on with the game." When people say "That doesn't make sense," they have a valid complaint. And when people explain, "It could make sense, if you think about it in this particular way," or "It doesn't have to, just ignore it and enjoy the game," they're not actually addressing the problem. The problem is that the game mechanics are not producing results that the person finds pleasing and they need to look elsewhere for different mechanics that they will find pleasing. I think we're going to see more and more people who want a more traditional approach to system resolution as more and more people who left D&D with 4E come and check out what's up with the new edition. And some of these people feel that WotC fired them as a customer. When you've got a negative experience like that and you talk about the way 4E is different than most previously published versions of D&D, it's easy to take a vague idea of "verisimilitude" and make it a point of contention. Fun times ahead. [/QUOTE]
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