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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1181373" data-attributes="member: 2011">Even if your party was stupid enough to agree with this (remember the disorienting affect and the fact that only spell casters can get you back), your Wizard is still typically limited to 2 of these spells (3 if he is specialized Transmutation) per day and it is doubtful that all 2 or 3 enemies possible would miss their saving throws.So even though the effect is permanent, you would have to do this for several days in a row just to beef up the party and then go adventuring.And what does your party of Trolls gain?Str 23, Dex 14, Con 23: bite, claw, claw, 7 natural armor, plus good chance of disorientationNo regeneration, no rend. All in all, only a modest gain at best depending on whom it is cast. For example, the party Sorcerer is probably not going to allow the party Wizard to change him into a troll and expect him to charge into combat (the Sorcerer still has his wimpy hit points after all).On top of that, any good DM will have that &quot;party of Trolls&quot; tracked down and killed by NPC good guys (remember, perception is everything, not knowledge).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 1181373, member: 2011"] Even if your party was stupid enough to agree with this (remember the disorienting affect and the fact that only spell casters can get you back), your Wizard is still typically limited to 2 of these spells (3 if he is specialized Transmutation) per day and it is doubtful that all 2 or 3 enemies possible would miss their saving throws. So even though the effect is permanent, you would have to do this for several days in a row just to beef up the party and then go adventuring. And what does your party of Trolls gain? Str 23, Dex 14, Con 23: bite, claw, claw, 7 natural armor, plus good chance of disorientation No regeneration, no rend. All in all, only a modest gain at best depending on whom it is cast. For example, the party Sorcerer is probably not going to allow the party Wizard to change him into a troll and expect him to charge into combat (the Sorcerer still has his wimpy hit points after all). On top of that, any good DM will have that "party of Trolls" tracked down and killed by NPC good guys (remember, perception is everything, not knowledge). [/QUOTE]

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