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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 305721" data-attributes="member: 4937">I agree with Someone. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The damage it does can be easily addressed by the mitigating factors (touch attack), and is not out of line for a 3rd level spell anyway (in fact its a little low until the two attacks per round thing comes into effect).And Haste as a 3rd level spell has more to do with the fact that it's always been a 3rd level spell and less to do with its actual influence on game play.The real problem is the damage plus daze.  The spell would be pretty powerful as a repeatable touch version of Tasha's Uncontrollable Hidieous Laughter.  As a repeatable touch version of TUHL and Shocking Grasp together, it is worrisome.  It's not 'Are you insane!?!' worrisome, but its definately going to have a huge impact on play.Jeremy: If it was an area of effect spell, I'd personally find it somewhat less potent, since each target could only be effected once per casting.  There are already plenty of nice damaging area effect spells.  Heck, as an area of effect spell, this is scarcely worse than Sonic Burst (only a 2nd level spell).  This is fulfilling an entirely different and previously empty niche.The spell combination makes it worse, but it doesn't really bother me (as I said in the original post).  The spell bothers me even without the combination, because it has a pretty good shot of completely taking even potent opponents right out of the game.  If you don't have a good Fort save or don't have acid resistance of 20, then you better have a darn good touch AC - or this might as well be finger of death.  There aren't many things that are going to make two Fort saves vs. a high level caster's DC.  Once this starts, you will never get another action, and this in my opinion is far worse than damage.As for TUHL knocking the opponent prone, that's true but its only +4 to hit prone.  More important is that you get 1d3 free rounds to wail away/cast spells while your opponent is laughing it up ("Stop it, you're killing me!").  And balancing against TUHL knocking an opponent prone, is that it only effects creatures with 3 INT or better, and non-humanoids get a +4 to save.  So I consider the two effects a wash.  If I could hit my opponent with TUHL 15 straight times, maybe multiple times, at the cost of one spell, I'd happily do it.  Once the effect kicked in, the fact that it was a touch spell would no longer be a big worry.  AND, on top of that, I'm doing some pretty good damage.Are there limitations?  Sure.  But I can definately see how this could annoy a DM.</blockquote>

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