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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 312093" data-attributes="member: 1210">Interesting discussion!One thing I'd point out for comparison is the Brain Lock psionic ability.  It's a second-level psion power (roughly equivalent to a 2nd-level wiz/sor spell) that essentially dazes a single target for 1 round/level.  It only affects humanoids of medium or smaller size.  It's medium range.Another is Bolts of Bedevilment.  This is a medium-range spell that allows one ray per round.  A hit dazes a living target for 1d3 rounds.  This is a 5th level _prestige domain_ spell.  Sooo... how does BSS stack up?Well, add in damage, lots of it (potentially).  Add in that it's a Fort save instead of Will... Add in that it isn't limited to humanoids, or for that matter to living creatures.  It isn't mind-affecting, and it's a Fort save, so it'll affect a lot of things other daze effects won't (still won't get undead or the like since they're immune to Fort saves that don't explicitly affect objects).Ignoring the damage for the moment, I'd say this is a mage killer.  I always find it interesting that people set up test arguments for spells and the like with the best possible opponent (in this case, a fighter with his good Fort save).  To _really_ check balance you need to look at the worst case. So say you're a sorcerer or wizard, your Fort save sucks, and your enemy comes up and hits you with this spell once.  Say you're 5th level and so is he.  You take 1d8+5 damage (not too bad, but it's still likely to be around 25-50% of your hp at 5th level).  Most likely you fail your save.  They you basically keep taking 1d8+5 per round for the next few rounds and keep having to make those damn Fort saves.  Ouch. Sure, maybe your fighter bud is gonna save your bacon, but not if the enemy fighter keeps him tied up for a couple of rounds.It gets much worse at higher levels, as the discussion has shown.  Now, BSS gives you one touch attack per level.  Bolts of Bedevilment gives you one ranged touch per level.  But BSS does damage as well as the daze, and there's no save vs. the damage, and it's acid damage (one of the better types in my opinion).  And BoB is 5th level vs. 3rd level for BSS.  Looks like BSS is a better choice overall, especially given how simple it is to extend your touch spells with spectral hand or the feat in DotF that makes a touch spell a ray.  Granted that BoB is clerical, not wiz/sor; but it's two levels higher, plus it's a _prestige domain_ spell.  I can't emphasize this enough, and yes, I know the madness domain has been opened up somewhat, but it was designed to be a prestige domain.  A quick look at the various prestige domains reveals that they're basically designed to be superior to regular domains.  So BoB might be a 6th level cleric spell if it was on the regular list. Looking for domain spells to compare vs. their arcane counterparts that are of a similar vein, Confusion is equal level as a wiz/sor spell and as a domain spell.  Ditto for suggestion, emotion, and insanity (all in the charm domain).  At a glance, only charm monster is higher level as a domain spell than as a wiz/sor spell, at least as far as mind-affecting stuff goes.  So I'd say if BoB was a wiz/sor spell it should be around 5th level, maybe 6th.Now how's that comparison look?As for brain lock, its one advantage is being a medium range spell.  It is limited to medium or smaller humanoids, it's explicitly mind-affecting, and it gives a Will save.  That is certainly less powerful than BSS, whose only disadvantage (compared to BL) is the range of touch.  Now, BL is of course a psionic power, and again at a glance, mind-affecting powers tend to be a tad lower level for psions (charm monster is 3rd, for example; domination is 4th; mass suggestion is 5th).  I don't think this necessarily would be a 3rd level wiz/sor spell, but maybe a high-end 2nd level one.  Yep, I'm gonna have to say that BSS is a touch overpowered.  How do ya fix it?Well, cap the damage at +10, for one thing.  For another, make the daze an explicitly mind-affecting effect.  Poof!  Fixed.All this is, naturally, in my opinion.</blockquote>

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